On Banning and Moderating
It’s been an interesting week. Over on LiveJournal, I’ve been told that my blog is a toxic cesspool because I don’t moderate comments enough. Over on Google+, I’m told that warning someone he was crossing the line and needed to stop is enforcing a space where people “are only allowed to tell me how totally cool” I am, and anyone with a different opinion must remain silent or be banned. (Ironically, he was later banned. Not for disagreeing with me, but for repeatedly ignoring the rules/boundaries I had set.)
Anyone who’s hung around my sites and paid attention ought to recognize that I don’t ban people for disagreeing with me. I appreciate disagreement and debate. I’ve learned a lot from commenters on various sites arguing with me. It’s influenced the stories I’ve published. It’s influenced the way I blog. It’s influenced my opinions and ideas on a number of topics.
I have banned people before. For threats, for ignoring warnings to stop a certain behavior, for disrespecting stated boundaries, for trolling… I’ve also frozen discussion threads before. I usually do this when, in my opinion, the discussion has lost any productive content and become nothing but insults and sniping back and forth.
I don’t like doing it. I try to err on the side of letting people speak their minds. I also try to give warnings before freezing/banning, but that doesn’t always happen.
And sometimes I probably hesitate out of simple fear or exhaustion. Because it doesn’t matter why I ban a user or moderate my space, the reaction is almost always the same. I’m called names, accused of censoring anyone who disagrees with me, attacked in e-mail, and the next day, Google alerts helpfully point me to the banned commenter’s rant about that asshole Jim Hines who pretends to be so fair and reasonable but is really just a stuck-up little dictator.
Who wouldn’t look forward to that?
Every year, my blog reaches a larger audience, and that’s awesome. I’m not close to the popularity of Wheaton or Gaiman, but I’ve gotten big enough that that the blog requires more time and more energy on my part. That piece on Orson Scott Card has been viewed more than 7000 times. (“Baby Got Books” is well past 20,000. Woo hoo!)
The Card piece generated a lot of discussion and a lot of disagreement, some of it rather heated. Every comment of which I’ve read.
A few of those threads came close to the empty exchange of insults I mentioned above, but they never crossed that line for me. Maybe I should have stepped in. Maybe not.
This has been a long week, and I don’t have a lot left. Maybe I let things slide on that post because I didn’t have the energy to deal with the fallout. Maybe I jumped the gun on banning that person on Google+ because I didn’t have the energy to deal with yet another round of back-and-forth about what I wrote vs. what he thought I wrote. I don’t know. I’m not perfect, and I don’t think I’ve ever claimed otherwise.
So here’s the deal. This is my space. This is my online home. I’d appreciate it if y’all didn’t come into my home and crap on the couch. 99.8% of you are beautiful, awesome, passionate, wonderful guests, and I love you. Even when you argue with me. Especially when you argue with me 🙂
But a decade ago, that other .2% was out of maybe a hundred or so people. Now it could be 7000 or more. That takes its toll.
I’m listening. I listen to the people who tell me I’m an asshole for the way I write about Topic X. (I also listen to the people who disagree with the way I write about Topic X without calling me an asshole. Thank you.) I listen to the people who tell me I’m a dick for not stepping in and doing more to moderate comments. I listen to the people who thank me for allowing people space for anger and debate. I listen to the people who say they love my blog but can’t read the comments on my rape posts, because I don’t automatically block and ban Men’s Rights Activists. I listen, and I do my best to find a balance that’s right for them, and that’s right for me.
Because ultimately, this is my space, and I’m responsible for what happens here. For the general atmosphere, for the topics that get discussed, and for what is and is not accepted in the comments.
If that’s not enough, nobody’s forcing you to read my posts. Nobody’s forcing you to comment. Everyone’s different, and if this isn’t the blog space for you, then I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart in finding a space better matched to your needs.
Daniel D. Webb
September 15, 2011 @ 9:51 am
Ah, the classic dilemma of the forum moderator. I spend a lot of my life online in various venues, and the sad fact is that people tend to be more aggressive when there’s some reason they won’t be held immediately accountable for their behavior–such as the anonymity of the Internet.
It may just reflect poorly on the areas I hang out, but in the time I’ve been following this blog I’ve seen a great deal less of this nonsense than I have on the ‘net in general. That’s probably cold comfort when you’re trying to handle some guy who mistakes his perspective for divine mandate, but overall you’ve got a very good quality of readership around here.
And for what it’s worth, Jim, I think you strike exactly the right balance. Herding people online requires a light touch but firm boundaries. Much, I suppose, like parenting. You’re doing fine; I’m sorry it’s a pain sometimes. But a lot of us out here appreciate reading your thoughts and having a (mostly) civil venue in which to discuss them.
Paula B.
September 15, 2011 @ 10:08 am
I read a lot of blogs, but rarely comment (pretty much consider myself a lurker). I read this blog on almost a daily basis, mostly because your posts are well thought out and the blog isn’t filled with trolls. Not every comment agrees with your stated opinion, but it isn’t a cesspool of hateful language either. Maybe those of us who appreciate this place should speak up more often, because we all know that those who do not appreciate will be expressing their displeasure at full volume, and often in vitriolic ways.
You’ve created this forum, let us come and interact, but its all yours and you have every right to draw the line that you feel is appropriate. So Thank You for both the forum, and keeping this place a great place to visit.
Mary Spila
September 15, 2011 @ 10:25 am
Your house, Your rules.
Jim C. Hines
September 15, 2011 @ 2:21 pm
Daniel – I think there’s also a difference in overall atmosphere between this site and the LiveJournal mirror, mostly because the LJ is a lot older and tends to get a much larger response.
And thank you!
Jim C. Hines
September 15, 2011 @ 2:21 pm
Thanks, Paula. That’s much appreciated 🙂
Maxine MagicFox
September 15, 2011 @ 8:01 pm
Heh, finally a topic I have a LOT of experience in. Jim, your last few paragraphs are exactly the sort of feelings you need to have. This is not some company website. This is your personal private section. You are allowed to post up your own rules and feel free to enforce them. Even if you feel the need to ban someone whether or not they are breaking rules – ban them. Don’t hesitate.
I spent my teenage years of website administrating trying to play fair. Trying to be respectful. I use to question myself “what if they are right and I am just trying to create a community only of people who worship me.”
I am 27 now and I have the forums for my current website open since ’08. I go by a completely new policy: if I really am creating a community of only people who worship me, is that such a bad thing? No, it’s not. And they do not worship me. They have told me off several times, but it is a great community of friends who then feel free to bring in their own friends. We are full of diverse attitudes and opinions and we ALL feel FREE to speak our minds. I have three moderators who I hired strictly because they had such differing opinions on how to interpret the rules I set. ^_^ I say I hired them because they challenged my rules and made me think. So I know that there is never the possibility of me just power-tripping and doing exactly what I am afraid of. Not for as long as they keep me in check.
A blog ESPECIALLY should be your own private turf. Its in its very nature that this belongs TO YOU.
Trust me. I’ve been doing this for years. Do not second guess yourself and do not even feel that you should justify yourself when and if someone attempts to question you. “If you do not like it, do not visit.” You’ll tear yourself apart. The Internet is just too unfriendly to attempt to play fair with every anonymous that comes around.
This does not make you a jerk in any way, either. It makes you a wonderful administrator. The people that leave would have left anyways, and if they had stayed it would have only been to tear apart the community you would have liked to foster.
There is a big difference between banning someone because their opinion differs and banning someone because they were just being a troll.
I do not know the situation or what exactly happened but, chances are, if you are happy with the outcome, you did it right. If you aren’t, you did it wrong. Just take a deep breathe and ask yourself: “Were their comments really, truly adding to the conversation in a positive way?” If the answer is “no” you know what to do.
Sean Hastings
October 5, 2011 @ 10:09 pm
Hey – this post is about me! How cool is that. 🙂
Funny though, you write:
“I’m told that warning someone he was crossing the line and needed to stop is enforcing a space where people “are only allowed to tell me how totally cool” I am, and anyone with a different opinion must remain silent or be banned. (Ironically, he was later banned. Not for disagreeing with me, but for repeatedly ignoring the rules/boundaries I had set.)”
Which doesn’t really reflect the truth – in that I was apparently immediately banned after making that statement, not at some later time. And since I was, in fact, dropping the point that you did not want to recognize or engage with, and was just saying my goodbye from the thread (along with expressing my misgivings about your commanding my silence) the reason you give for banning me is as erroneous as the disingenuously implied timing.
(Sorry to only respond to this many weeks later – I only now realized I had been banned, because (as stated above) I was already excusing myself from the thread, and I only manage to find the time to read your stuff every month or so, if that. BTW – I really liked “Baby Got Books”)
Jim C. Hines
October 5, 2011 @ 10:17 pm
Oh, for God’s sake, Sean.
1. Yes, one part of one paragraph of this post is about you.
2. Go away.
Jim C. Hines
October 6, 2011 @ 7:34 am
Sean,
Once again, I’ve told you to go away and you’ve apparently taken this as an invitiation to continue to comment and complain.
You may have noticed that your follow-up comment went straight into moderation, and did not appear on the site. Please take this as a hint.