Penguin’s Book Country
Disclaimer: My books are published by DAW, which has a distribution agreement through Penguin.
A few weeks ago, Penguin launched a site called Book Country. From an article in the New York Times, Book Country:
“…will allow writers to post their own work … and receive critiques from other users, who can comment on points like character development, pacing and dialogue.”
So far, so good, right? It sounds like the site was launched with the best of intentions, to help writers improve their craft and learn about the business. But keep reading, and you get to this quote. “Penguin hopes the site will attract agents, editors and publishers scouting for new talent…”
Good luck with that. Writer Beware wrote about manuscript display sites back in 2006.
“They were touted as writers’ Great New Hope: a brand-new cyberspace opportunity to bypass publishers’ closed-door policies and agents’ huge slush piles. Agents and editors, the sites declared, would be eager to visit a venue where manuscripts were pre-sorted into easily-searchable categories and genres, where submissions were pre-screened for quality…”
Repeat after me: there are no shortcuts. Of all the authors I’ve featured on First Book Friday, not one sold their first book via a manuscript display site. It almost makes you think agents and editors already have more submissions and queries than they can handle, and don’t need to spend their free time surfing display sites and hunting the Next Big Thing.
Even Penguin admits their staff won’t be searching the site for new authors. From the FAQ, Book Country “is not a channel for the submission of unsolicited manuscripts to Penguin editors.” Yet discoverability is pushed as a selling point to bring new writers in. “Our members include published authors and industry professionals. You never know who might discover your work.”
You never know who’ll discover your work if you leave your manuscript in a public restroom either. That doesn’t make it a smart strategy.
Book Country does offer critiques from other writers, articles and advice from professionals, and discussion forums, all backed by a major publisher. It costs nothing to join. These are all good things. Former agent Colleen Lindsay has been helping to get Book Country off the ground, which I think adds to their credibility. ETA: Colleen pointed to this link for background on the three full-time employees working on Book Country.
But then you get to the self-publishing angle. From the About Us page, “Later this year, Book Country will offer a convenient and affordable way to self-publish eBooks and print books.”
I’m going to quote a different Writer Beware article from back when Harlequin, another major publisher, started up a self-publishing service.
“I don’t for one teeny tiny second believe that discovering new writers, or giving them a chance to ‘begin their legacies’ or ‘reach the stars,’ plays a major part here. That’s just a marketing pitch. This is about money. Now more than ever, commercial publishers need to shore up their bottom lines–and adding self-publishing divisions is an easy and profitable way to do so.”
Book Country is targeted squarely at writers. Not editors, not agents, and not readers. By itself, this isn’t a bad thing … but publishing is a business, and it’s pretty clear where Penguin hopes to make back their investment.
There’s a lot of good stuff here. I see articles from Supereditor Ellen Datlow, Lou Anders of Pyr, Colleen Lindsay, and more. Online critique groups can be helpful too. If you go in expecting some helpful articles and feedback from other amateur writers, you probably won’t be disappointed.
But don’t go in looking for shortcuts or that big break.
Has anyone here been involved in Book Country? Submitted or critiqued any work, or interacted with folks on the site? Discussion, debate, and more info are welcome, as always.
Colleen Lindsay
May 9, 2011 @ 10:17 am
Hi Jim –
Thanks for writing about Book Country! I’d be happy to answer more questions about the site if you have them. You should know, however, that we brought Victoria Strauss on very early because we absolutely wanted Writer Beware to have a complete understanding of what the site is and ISN’T. Shoot me a quick email if you have specific questions you would like me to address.
In the meantime, I’d like to invite you to join us at Book Country and explore our Discussions forums. There are a lot of great conversations going on, and a lot of new writers who would probably welcome some advice from a publishing professional like yourself.
All the best,
Colleen Lindsay
Book Country Community Manager
Jim C. Hines
May 9, 2011 @ 10:26 am
Hi Colleen,
Thanks for commenting! I was thinking I should shoot you a message on Twitter to let you know about the post, but you beat me here 🙂
I may have a few questions for you, and I appreciate the offer!
Thanks,
Jim
Colleen Lindsay
May 9, 2011 @ 10:41 am
I just left this same comment over at your LJ, cos you’ll probably have more people commenting over there.
Michele Lee
May 9, 2011 @ 11:25 am
Hi Jim!
I’ve been a Beta for Book Country for a bit now. While I’ve not been as active as I’d like (I always was more of a watcher) I’ve enjoyed it. I also, just a few weeks before join the Online Writers Workshop, a pay crit group site. While I’ve yet to put my own work on Book Country (my goal is to put something up any day now) I don’t see how the two are much different. Book Country has more discussion boards about craft and what not and is free. I’m also not sure how it’s that different from Absolute Write, which also has crit boards.
The Penguin connection and the self publishing bits haven’t been pushed hard from what I’ve seen, so when discussions like this came up I was a little caught off guard. Over all my experience has been pleasant. I’ll update you after I start to get some crits back, but of course I won’t be putting all of a novel, etc online. I just don’t do that.
-Michele
Joe Selby
May 9, 2011 @ 11:44 am
I’m over there as well. It has a good attitude and a variety of people. It’s focus on genre fiction has attracted a similar bunch of people. One could draw comparisons to other online crit sites and see some things they’ve done better and places they’ll need improvement when it grows. Fundamentally, it acts like a place for writers–established and aspiring–to come together and share their enthusiasm for writing. I did not go there thinking I might get noticed, but simply wanted to tap into other people like me to improve my and their craft.
Jim C. Hines
May 9, 2011 @ 1:16 pm
Thanks, Michele. Some of the differences you’ve already pointed out, such as the Penguin connection and the self-publishing aspect. Another difference is that neither OWW nor Absolute Write advertises that using their sites could get you your big break when you’re discovered by big-time agents and editors.
Jim C. Hines
May 9, 2011 @ 1:17 pm
Sounds like they’ve got a pretty good group of people. Has it been helpful to you as a writer, both the networking/community and the improvement to your craft you were looking for?
Steve Buchheit
May 9, 2011 @ 1:24 pm
Note to self, stop leaving manuscripts in public restrooms.
When I first read about Book Country, I was thinking, “Cool!” Until I got to the vanity press part. The tinkling sound of dreams being broken was quite loud. But I guess now I’ll need to check it out. You know, just for the articles.
Jim C. Hines
May 9, 2011 @ 1:28 pm
I think it depends on how they push the self-publishing piece. I’ve gotten some positive feedback on the site from a few users. But at the same time … yeah. Some warning bells there.
I’m actually working on a follow-up interview with Colleen Lindsay, so hopefully I’ll be able to get a bit more info as to what the rationale was behind some of these decisions and the future plans for the site.
Joe Selby
May 9, 2011 @ 2:58 pm
I have received good feedback and less good feedback. It has the same shortcoming that all other such sites have. It bills itself for books but is much better suited to short stories. People read a one or two chapters, critique, and then move on. This can help hone a first chapter but some broader-themed comments come off as ridiculous when the person is so early in the story.
There are some solid people there. I haven’t pursued it with an agenda of networking, but have met some pretty cool people that I like discussing things with because they’re pretty cool, which is more my style of networking.
Stephen A. Watkins
May 10, 2011 @ 4:08 pm
At first blush, the mere mention of an affiliated vanity-press wing set off my “jaded, cynical writer” alarm. But then my inner jaded, cynical writer said: “Well, really, publishing exists as an industry to make money off of the efforts of writers. Vanity publishing versus traditional publishing differ only in particulars of the specific source of those revenue streams.”
I don’t know quite how I feel about something like this. In some ways, I think it’s crass. In other ways… if what they’re doing is legitimately providing value to unpublished writers, then it’s hard to knock it. Still, I think there are other, equally legitimate (and free) ways for unpublished writers to derive the same value without exposing themselves to potentially sleazy vanity-press marketeers. For myself… the subtle whisperings of vanity-press ads suggesting “you know you’re not good enough ever to get published through the traditional publishing… give up now, and throw your stuff our way… at least then it’ll be over” would be a little more annoying than I’m likely to be willing to put up with. If I listen to that whisper long enough, I might even start to believe it.
Jim C. Hines
May 10, 2011 @ 7:56 pm
Some of it is going to depend on how they present and market the self-publishing piece of the site.
I do think they’re providing some legitimately valuable information and community. But at the same time, comments like the ones I mentioned in the post resonate a little too closely with some of those vanity-press whispers.
I’ve swapped a few e-mails with Colleen Lindsay, and I’m hoping to get more information for a follow-up post.
Michele Lee
May 10, 2011 @ 9:29 pm
Since I went ahead and posted my first crit chapters today I thought you’d like to see some of the language in the terms of service referring to critting. (I’ve cut this down to what I consider the important bits, but haven’t changed wording at all. Also, since this isn’t a huge secret and is easily accessible I hope Ms. Colleen and her coworkers won’t be upset by me posting this.)
“If you upload your Work, up to 5,000 words will be viewable by visitors to the Website at any one time and up to 30,000 words will be viewable by members of the Website at any one time. You will be able to follow other members and to establish connections with them, which will allow them to see more of your Work and you to see more of theirs. You may also arrange with us to self-publish your Work as an ebook and/or in printed form that you may sell via the Website, and, in the future, to make your Work available for purchase via other online booksellers.
Except as set forth herein, you will retain all rights in your Content, including the copyright; posting your Content on the Website does not change your ownership rights. By posting or uploading any Content on the Website: (i) you understand that if your Work is in a genre included on the Book Country Website, and complies with these General Terms of Use, your Work may be made accessible to users of the Website and members will be able to review, comment on it and rate it; (ii) you represent and warrant that you own or control all rights in your Content, that such Content is original and does not, and will not, infringe the copyright, trademark or any other right of any person or entity, and that any “moral rights” in the Content have been waived; and (iii) you grant to us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, irrevocable, perpetual, transferable right and license (A) to display the Content on the Website, and (B) with respect to Content other than your Work, to use, display, reproduce, distribute, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, perform, make, sell and export such Content, in whole and in part, on the Website or in any formats and through any media, as we see fit, and you shall have no claims against Book Country for such use or non-use. ”
Also there’s this bit:
“You understand that this Website is not an official or unofficial channel for the submission of unsolicited manuscripts for publishing consideration by Penguin Group (USA) Inc. This Website is not a back door to Penguin Group (USA) Inc….”
So if I’m reading this right they lay out how much of a work people will see, say that you can’t upload fan fiction or plagiarized work, and they can use anything but your work (like your profile) for promo, but CANNOT use your work in that way. also they explicitly state that BC is not a back door to being published by Penguin. So they’re all but outright saying they’re not Authonomy.
Again, of course promo might lead people to believe differently, but they’ve at least thought enough to lay all this out, right?
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