Fiskception: Dissecting Correia’s Critique of MacFarlane
1/30: Comments are back on, in case there are points you feel you need to make that haven’t already been covered in the ~350 posted comments from yesterday. The goblins (and fire-spider) stayed away yesterday, but will be munching comments today as needed.
Hint: if you demean a human being’s gender or sexual preference by equating it to an attraction to animals or furniture? If you question the mental health of an individual who doesn’t fit into your narrow worldview? The goblins will eat your comment.
While we’re at it, I’ve noticed a few people responding to arguments from both me and Correia by basically saying, “Well, his books suck!” Can we not do that? Unless it’s directly relevant to the argument, it feels like a cheap shot, and doesn’t actually address what’s being discussed. So yeah, the goblins will be munching on off-topic book-bashing, too.
1/31: I don’t believe I actually have to say this, but telling someone that they, or people just like them, made Naziism what it was, will also get your comments fed to the goblins.
3/21: I’m closing comments for good. People have moved on to other arguments, and this post seems to be getting spam-bombed pretty heavily for some reason…
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This is gonna be a long one.
The backstory: Author Alex Dally MacFarlane wrote an article called Post-Binary Gender in SF: An Introduction over at Tor.com, calling for “an end to the default of binary gender in science fiction stories.”
One week later, author Larry Correia wrote a response to MacFarlane’s piece, called Ending Binary Gender in Fiction, or How to Murder Your Writing Career. (Side note: you’ll probably want to avoid the comments on that one.)
I tried to ignore it. There’s no way I’m going to change Correia’s mind about this stuff, any more than his post changed my thinking. But of course, there are a lot of other people lurking and participating in the conversation, and while I know this is going to do bad things to my blood pressure, I think it’s a conversation worth having.
I’m following Correia’s general style here. My responses will be italicized. His original content is indented.
This was sent to me on Facebook the other day. I made some comments there, but then I got to thinking about it and decided this thing was such a good example of how modern sci-fi publishing has its head stuck up its ass that it really deserved its own blog post. My response is really directed toward the aspiring writers in the crowd who want to make a living as writers, but really it works for anybody who likes to read, or who is just tired of angsty emo bullshit.
I wonder which is more angsty … an author calling for our genre to move beyond binary gender, or another author spending 4000+ words about how people like MacFarlane are symbolic of everything that’s wrong with the genre, and are destroying fun.
Okay, aspiring author types, you will see lots of things like this, and part of you may think you need to incorporate these helpful suggestions into your work. After all, this is on Tor.com so it must be legit. Just don’t. When you write with the goal of checking off boxes, it is usually crap. This article is great advice for writers who want to win awards but never actually be read by anyone.
I agree that if you’re writing a story with the kind of checklist Correia describes, you’re probably going to get a bad story. But what exactly are the suggestions Correia objects to? MacFarlane never says all writers must now include at least one non-binary character. She says only that she wants readers to be aware of non-binary texts, and wants writers to stop defaulting to them. Not that authors should never write cismale or cisfemale characters. Just be aware that there are other choices, and make conscious choices about your writing.
Now do yourself a favor and read the comments… I’ll wait… Yeah… You know how when my Sad Puppies posts talk about the “typical WorldCon voter”? Those comments are a good snapshot of one subtype right there.
From the comments to Correia’s piece:
- “I am so tired of these pretentious twats. Err, dicks. Err… pre-op alternative genitals.”
- “The hilarious thing is my books are filled with characters who are non-white, non-male, non-straight, occasionally trans and from a mixmaster of genetic and cultural backgrounds … But I don’t write books for leftist pussies so they’ve never read my books.”
- “If this is the level of education of the typical WorldCon voter, it’s no wonder the GOOD writers don’t win awards. These loonies wouldn’t recognize good writing if Earl Harbinger yanked out their guts and used the intestines to piece out quotes from Jane Austen.”
Do we really want to start arguing about what one’s commenters say about one’s audience?
I also know from that Facebook thread that a lot of people tried to comment and disagree for various reasons, but their posts were deleted. (and some of them even swore that they were polite!). But like most modern lefty crusades, disagreement, in fact, anything less than cheerleading, is “intolerance” and won’t be tolerated. Meanwhile, my FB thread had lots of comments and an actual intelligent discussion of the pros and cons from both sides (and even transsexual communists who actually like to enjoy their fiction thought this Tor.com post was silly), so remember that the next time a snooty troll calls my fans a “right wing echo chamber.”
If Tor.com is deleting comments for disagreement, then that’s a serious problem. But skimming through the 100+ comments on the article, I find plenty that disagree with MacFarlane, or argue with what she’s saying. Tor.com does have a moderation policy, so I’d expect comments that violated that policy to get booted. Beyond that, I don’t know the details of the allegedly polite commenters who claim to have been booted for not cheerleading enough, so there’s not much more for me to say about this one.
ETA: I’m told one comment was deleted for stating that non-binary people are mentally ill, which would seem to violate #1, #2, and #4 on Tor.com’s moderation policy. There may have been other deletions, but this is the only one I’m aware of.
ETA2: One of the Tor.com moderators comments on the deletions here.
If you can’t stomach the comments long enough to hear what a typical WorldCon voter sounds like, let me paraphrase: “Fantastic! I’m so sick of people actually enjoying books that are fun! Let’s shove more message fiction down their throats! My cause comes before their enjoyment! Diversity! Gay polar bears are being murdered by greedy corporations! Only smart people who think correct thoughts like I do should read books and I won’t be happy until my genre dies a horrible death! Yay!” (and if there is beeping noise in the background, that’s because they’re backing up their mobility scooter).
So let’s break this pile of Gender Studies 101 mush down into its component bits and see just why some sci-fi writers won’t be happy until their genre dies completely. Like my usual Fisking, the original article is in italics and my comments are in bold.
Because calling for an awareness that not all people fit into a simple binary gender system = KILL ALL THE SCIENCE FICTION!!!
In other news, I believe we should do something about racism in this country, which actually means I WANT TO DESTROY AMERICA!1!!!1!
Post-Binary Gender in SF: Introduction, by Alex Dally MacFarlane
I want an end to the default of binary gender in science fiction stories.
I want lots of things too, doesn’t mean I can have them. Right out the gate that’s a pretty bold statement. And by bold, I mean ridiculous.
How dare people want things! How ridiculous that people want things I don’t personally agree with! You empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction.
What is this “default of binary gender” he wants to end? It is that crazy old fashioned idea that most (as in the vast majority) of mammals, including humans, can be grouped into male and female based upon whether they’ve got XX or XY chromosomes. Sure, that’s medically true something like 99.999% of the time, which would sort of make it the default.
1. Alex MacFarlane is female.
2. You ask what the default is that she wants to end. She answers that in the following paragraph. Which doesn’t seem to stop you from running off to declare gender = chromosomal/biological sex.
Oh, and “default” means that is your assumed baseline.
So that whole thing where people are male or female except for some tiny exceptions and that is kind of the assumption until proven otherwise is standard, so this guy wants to end that. (I’m assuming Alex is a dude, but then again, that is just me displaying my cismale gendernomrative fascism)
Cismale gendernomrative fascist? Whatever. What Correia is displaying here is his awareness that he’s making an assumption, his awareness that the assumption might be wrong, and his unwillingness to do 30 seconds of research to verify his assumption. Or just read the bio at the end of MacFarlane’s article. Either because he’s lazy, or because he doesn’t see any need to treat people he disagrees with respectfully. Or both.
What do I mean by “post-binary gender”? It’s a term that has already been used to mean multiple things, so I will set out my definition:
Post-binary gender in SF is the acknowledgement that gender is more complex than the Western cultural norm of two genders (female and male): that there are more genders than two, that gender can be fluid, that gender exists in many forms.
Wait… male and female are Western Cultural Norms? Uh… No. That is a biological norm for all the higher life forms on Earth so that species can replicate themselves (keep in mind, this is SCIENCE fiction he wants to change). I like how Western Culture is the root of all that’s evil though, even though male and female are cultural norms in pretty much every human society there has ever been.
Read more carefully. The Western cultural norm is to genders; that doesn’t mean two genders is exclusively a Western cultural norm. See also, nickels are coins, but not all coins are nickels.
And yes, male and female are cultural norms in pretty much every human society EVER! Except Mesopotamia, India, Siberia, Illiniwek, Olmec, Aztec, Maya, Thailand, Lakota, Blackfoot, Indonesia, Swahili, Azande, and all of the other cultures that historically or currently acknowledge the existence of more than two genders.
Also, nitpick. Gender was a grammar term for how you referred to the different sexes. Being male or female is your Sex. Or at least, that’s what the word meant until colleges invented the Gender Studies major for those students who found Liberal Arts way too academically grueling.
Paraphrase: “Ha, ha. People who disagree with me are dumb!”
Now, before we continue I need to establish something about my personal writing philosophy. Science Fiction is SPECULATIVE FICTION. That means we can make up all sorts of crazy stuff and we can twist existing reality to do interesting new things in order to tell the story we want to tell. I’m not against having a story where there are sexes other than male and female or neuters or schmes or hirs or WTF ever or that they flip back and forth or shit… robot sex. Hell, I don’t know. Write whatever tells your story.
But the important thing there is STORY. Not the cause of the day. STORY.
Because readers buy STORIES they enjoy and when readers buy our stuff, authors GET PAID.
I … actually, I pretty much agree with him here. People read for story, not for checklists or quotas or lectures. I see nothing in MacFarlane’s article to suggest she believes any differently. Calling for authors to be more thoughtful about their craft doesn’t mean you’re telling authors to abandon story for MESSAGE.
But you know, readers also tend to enjoy stories where they can find characters like themselves. Which is easy if you’re a straight white dude, and gets progressively more difficult the further you stray from that default. Maybe if we want to write enjoyable stories, we should try looking beyond the same old default that’s been done again and again throughout the history of the genre.
Robert Heinlein had stories where technology allowed switching sex. Great. That’s actually a pretty normal sci-fi trope where in the future, there’s some tech that allows people to change shape/sex, whatever, and we’ve got grandmasters of sci-fi who have pulled off humans evolving into psychic space dolphins or beings of pure energy. If that fits into the story you want to tell and you want to explore that, awesome for you. I’ve read plenty of stories where that was part of that universe. If your space whales that live inside the sun have three sexes, awesome (that one was my novella push on Sad Puppies 1).
But this post wasn’t about, hey write whatever mind expanding sci-fi ideas you want, nope, it want to end the norm in order to push a message. Post like this are all the same. You can swap the message around, and whatever the particular norm is, or whatever the particular message is, when you put your pet-peeve message before story, odds are you are going to bore the shit out of your reader.
Yep. Putting message before story will tend to bore your reader.
Now, if the only way you can imagine including a “non-default” character in your story is to make it a Message Story, then guess what — you’re probably a shitty writer. You can have gay characters in a story without making it a Gay Story. Austistic characters without having to write an Autism Story. Black characters without having to write a Race Story.
It’s a pretty big world out there. Why are we so scared to write about more than a limited, narrow piece of it?
People who do not fit comfortably into the gender binary exist in our present, have existed in our past, and will exist in our futures. So too do people who are binary-gendered but are often ignored, such as trans* people who identify as binary-gendered.
Will exist in the future? Probably. Should they be the default for your story? No way. Ignored? Hardly. Is that denying reality?
I don’t know what he’s saying here.
Okay, so I write a book, and let’s say that it has 20 characters in it. What is the acceptable percentage of them that should be transgender? How many boxes must I check in order to salve a blogger’s liberal angst? Let’s see… Only like 1 in 50,000 people have sex changes performed. So at 20 characters a book… If I have one character who has had a sex change show up every 2,500 books I write, I’d be statistically accurate.
Oh, yay. We’re back to quotas and checklists.
Ignoring the uncited and inaccurate statistics here, let’s flip this around. How many musclebound manly white men do I have to write about in my stories in order to convince people like Correia that it’s not a secret subversive left-wing liberal Message? How many big-busted blonde women need to throw themselves on my hero’s penis to satisfy his insecurities that non-white, non-male people might start to have an actual voice?
Oh, but now you’re going to tell me that gay people make up anywhere from 1-4% of the population. Fantastic. Except gay people are still the same sex they were born with. Gay dudes are still men and gay chicks are still women. This blogger didn’t say he wanted an end to default sexual orientation, he wants an end to default binary sex. If you think sci-fi doesn’t have people who don’t swing both ways, you’ve not read much sci-fi.
Right, so you’re throwing bad statistics out about a made-up argument that you acknowledge MacFarlane didn’t even bring up.
I think you’re wrong, because kitties are cuter than puppies. Which has nothing to do with anything Correia actually said, but that seems to be how we’re playing the game now.
Now, if I’m writing a sci-fi story set in Space Berkley or the Tenderloin District of the Future, then I’d probably have plenty of Hirs and Shmisters or whatever. Whatever fits the story, but until then how about not trying to enforce Equal Opportunity against our imaginary people?
(and if you really want to get crazy in the speculative fiction department, what with all this BS with made up pronouns to get rid of Him and Her, what the hell are romance languages supposed to do? Latino. Latina. Latinu? Latinsexyrobot?)
Language should be static and never evolve, which is why all future blog posts will be written in ancient Sumerian.
Here’s the problem. From a nuts and bolts story telling perspective, your readers are going to assume that everything in your book is similar to the world they currently live in, until demonstrated otherwise.
In talking to readers, I find that most of them assume SF/F books will portray worlds dominated by straight white folks. Not exclusively, mind you, but the representation in our genre is most certainly not that close to the world we currently live in.
Unless you say that in the future everybody has been genetically modified to have 3 legs, they are going to assume that all your human characters have two legs. If you are going to demonstrate that something is different, then there needs to be a reason for it. So if you say all humans have 3 legs, but it doesn’t play into the story at all, then why bother? And every time you change something to be different from the expected, there had better be a reason for it or you will quickly just annoy your reader.
I agree. When you make a choice about character, you should have a reason for that choice.
Making a character male or female is a choice. Making a character white is a choice. Making a character straight is a choice. But it’s a choice often made because these are the default, and the writer is lazy.
Reading sci-fi like that grows tiresome. It is like listening to an inexperienced little kid saying “Look, I can do THIS! And now I can do THIS! Isn’t that the neatest thing EVAR!?” And your response is “Yeah, yeah, that’s special…” when you’re really bored as shit and don’t care how tall their Lego tower is the 50th time.
I’m not sure what sci-fi he’s referring to, and I’m a little skeptical about how much of it he’s actually read, given his arguments. But I find stories that explore a more diverse world, that present different characters and stories I haven’t read a thousand times before, to be much more interesting. There’s comfort and enjoyment in reading the same-old genre tropes and tales too, but Correia sounds a lot like he’s bashing a genre you’ve never read.
Also, screw you. My LEGO tower is AWESOME.
If your story is about exploring sexual identity, awesome. Write that story. But only a fool is going to come along and tell you that you need to end the default of all your characters having ten fingers, because there are people in the world born with twelve and how could you be so insensitive to those who have lost fingers? Because awareness.
So if humans having 5 or 6 sexes in the future is part of your story, write it. If it isn’t part of the story, why would you waste words on it? Oh, that’s right, because MESSAGE.
ProTip: Focusing on message rather than story is a wonderful way for writers to continue working at Starbucks for the rest of their lives.
ProTip 2: If the only reason you can think of to include characters who aren’t the default is because MESSAGE, you’re a shitty writer. You might be a popular writer, because there are certainly plenty of people who want to devour books that don’t challenge them in any way, but that doesn’t make you a good writer. That’s probably an argument best saved for another blog post, though.
I am not interested in discussions about the existence of these gender identities: we might as well discuss the existence of women or men. Gender complexity exists. SF that presents a rigid, unquestioned gender binary is false and absurd.
Yes. Topic of the Day X exists! You know what else exists? Child abuse. So I’d better make sure I put that in every book I write.
It’s so much easier to argue with people if I deliberately misinterpret and oversimplify what they’re saying, isn’t it?
Because readers love that. If I’m telling a story about rocket ships, readers love it when your characters pause to have a discussion about animal cruelty, pollution, the dangers of over prescribing psychotropic drugs, or how we need to be sensitive to people with peanut allergies too. Readers are totally into being preached at about author’s favorite causes.
Have you ever gone into Barnes and Noble, went to the clerk at the info desk, and said “Hey, I really want to purchase with my money a science fiction novel which will increase my AWARENESS of troubling social issues.”? No? This is my shocked face.
Not that you can’t get a cause into your story, as long as you do it with skill. But the minute you destroy the default just to destroy the default, congratulations, you just annoyed the shit out of the reader. You want to slip in a message and not annoy your customers, that takes skill, so until you have developed your skills, don’t beat people over the head with your personal hang ups.
How about if my story isn’t in any way, shape, or form concerned with sexual identity (or whatever some reviewer’s personal hang up is today) I don’t waste words writing about it, and readers who want to can just assume that those people exist in the universe but they don’t happen to have speaking parts in this particular novel, if they care enough to think about it at all, which they probably won’t.
“Those People exist in my stories. They’re just not important enough to have speaking parts in this book. Or those other books. Or the majority of the books in our field.”
I intend to use this column to examine post-binary SF texts, both positively and critically, as well as for discussions of points surrounding this subject.
And I intend to use this column to go beyond Ursula K Le Guin’s The Left Hand of Darkness.
Read that a long time ago among the thousands of books I read as a kid. Vaguely remember it. Thought it was good, if I recall correctly.
I liked it, though I have to admit I find LeGuin’s nonfiction even better than her fiction.
Kameron Hurley wrote several years ago about the frustration of The Left Hand of Darkness being the go-to book for mind-blowing gender in SF, despite being written in 1968. Nothing written in the decades since has got the same traction in mainstream SF discourse—
Maybe that’s because Le Guin told a story that happened to have this blogger’s pet topic in it, that was still a story readers found interesting, as opposed to crafting a message fic manifesto, that readers found boring and forgettable?
I think the argument here is that LeGuin is the only one in the past 45 years who’s written about non-binary gender without writing a MESSAGE story. Which is a ridiculous argument, unless you buy into the tautological silliness that any story about non-binary gender = MESSAGE story.
and texts have been written. For a bit of context, 1968 is almost twenty years before I was born, and I’m hardly a child.
HARDLY! Well, there you go. I know when I’m looking for professional advice about how to succeed as a professional writer, I’m going to listen to somebody in their mid-twenties.
Hey, you’d better listen up. I’m betting this blogger went to COLLEGE!
“MacFarlane is wrong because I’m older than her!”
One of the reasons Hurley considers for this situation (raised by someone on a mailing list she belonged to) is that:
“…perhaps Le Guin’s book was so popular because it wasn’t actually as radical as we might think. It was very safe. The hetero male protagonist doesn’t have sex with any of the planet’s inhabitants, no matter their current gender. We go off on a boys’ own adventure story, on a planet entirely populated by people referred to as ‘he,’ no matter their gender. Le Guin is a natural storyteller, and she concentrates on the story. It’s not overly didactic. It’s engaging and entertaining.”
Holy shit… Wait… You mean this story has stuck around because “she concentrates on the story”? Engaging and entertaining? Blasphemy!
Yet, people like this don’t get why message fic books win piles of awards, yet totally fail in the market. See, the problem the modern literati twaddle peddlers run into isn’t that readers are insensitive rubes who don’t understand the plight of whatever their liberal cause of the day is, it is because they want to enjoy what they read. Their entertainment time and money is limited. Why spend it being preached at?
Once again misrepresenting the argument or just missing the point.
The next few paragraphs are very interesting, because they give you a glimpse into the mind of the modern literati.
Alex Dally MacFarlane IS the Modern Literati! She should totally get that on a T-shirt, or turn it into a superhero costume.
The Left Hand of Darkness certainly has been radical, as Hurley says, in its time, in the subsequent years and in the present. I have spoken to several people who found The Left Hand of Darkness immensely important: it provided their first glimpse of the possibility of non-binary gender. The impact that it has had on people’s realisations about their own gender is not something I want to diminish, nor anyone else’s growth in understanding.
However, I do think it can be very palatable for people who haven’t done a lot of thinking about gender. It is, as Hurley says earlier in her post, the kind of story that eases the reader in gently before dropping the gender bombs, and those bombs are not discomfiting for all readers. Of course they’re not. How can one text be expected to radicalise every reader?
I don’t want to cast The Left Hand of Darkness aside. It’s an important part of this conversation. What I do want to do is demonstrate how big that conversation truly is. Other texts have been published besides The Left Hand of Darkness, many of them oft-overlooked—many of them out of print. Some of them are profoundly problematic, but still provide interesting questions. Some of them are incredible and deserve to be considered classics of the genre. Some of them are being published right now, in 2014.
Fascinating. To the literati, books are all about dropping truth bombs. (as long as the truth agrees with their predetermined notions, obviously) This one is about sex, but you could swap that out for the evils of capitalism, or whatever bullshit they’re hung up on today. And of course, since publishing is an insular little industry based in the Manhattan echo chamber of proper goodthink, all the message fic that gets pumped out is stuff that just annoys the regular reading public.
More straw-manning. Yay. But yes, there are in fact people who think that maybe — just maybe — we should have stories that are more than mindless fluff perpetuating the same tired stereotypes. There are also people who recognize that all stories carry certain assumptions and messages and “truths.” Good Triumphs Over Evil. Freedom Is the Bestest Thing in the Universe. Intellectual Arrogance Will Destroy You. If Correia thinks his own personal bullshit doesn’t shape the stories he writes, then he’s a fool.
Also, damn. Bitter, much?
You want a truth bomb? Readers hate being preached at. Period. Even when you agree with the message, if it is ham fisted and shoved in your face, it turns you off. Message fic for message fic’s sake makes for tedious reading. Yet, as this stuff has become more and more prevalent, sci-fi has become increasingly dull, and readership has shrank.
Of course, the literati won’t be happy until everything is boring ass message fic and nobody reads sci-fi anymore, because then they’ll be super special snowflakes.
You know what’s boring? Yet another book about manly straight white dudes doing manly straight white things. You can’t preach about how boring conformity is bad for the genre, then spend 4000 words arguing with someone trying to challenge a piece of that genre conformity.
Okay, obviously you can do that, but I think it’s rather silly.
Amal El-Mohtar wrote a piece about the process of finding—having to find—a pioneering woman writer, Naomi Mitchison, and followed it up with a post where she said:
“It breaks my heart that we are always rediscovering great women, excavating them from the relentless soil of homogenizing histories, seeing them forever as exceptions to a rule of sediment and placing them in museums, remarkable more for their gender than for their work.”
Ah, pseudo-intellectual university humanities department speak… How I have missed you.
Writing should be simple and basic. “Invisible prose.” Because Conformity. Or something.
Yes. Because you shouldn’t elevate a book because you thought it was good and you want to share it with others, you should elevate a book because the sex, race, religion, sexual orientation, or personal philosophy of the author checks a box on the liberal angst/white guilt checklist.
The typical WorldCon voter, when presented with 5 nominees for a category, and their clique’s personal favorite writer isn’t on there, and not having actually read any of the works, will go through the authors and rank them according to the order that best assuages their hang ups. Oooh, a paraplegic transsexual lesbian minority abortion doctor with AIDS who writes for Mother Jones? You’d need a wheelbarrow to carry all the Hugos.
[Citation needed]
Quality? Popularity? Staying power? Influence? Isn’t that what makes something a classic? Not to the modern literati. We have to elevate works by people according to what they checked on their EEOC form. Meanwhile, hatey-McHatertons like me read books and like them, even when we don’t know anything about the author. I didn’t know what sex Lois Bujold or Wen Spencer where the first time I read one of their books, but I knew the writing was good. I couldn’t tell you what writers are gay or like to cross dress either, but I can tell you who I enjoy reading.
You realize that’s what El-Mohtar is saying, right? That we need to stop recognizing women writers as curiosities, noteworthy because, “Hey look, a woman wrote something good!” That we need to move past the assumption that all of the great works of literature were written by men. That we need to stop ignoring women’s accomplishments just because they’re women.
And of course, I know you would never poo-poo a book because it has girl cooties, but historically, that’s certainly been the trend. I’m glad to know you’re on board with wanting to do away with that trend.
It seems to me that there’s a similar process for post-binary texts: they exist, but each reader must discover them anew amid a narrative that says they are unusual, they are rare, they sit outside the standard set of stories. This, at least, has been my experience. I want to dismantle the sediment—to not only talk about post-binary texts and bring them to attention of more readers, but to do away with the default narrative.
Because nothing is going to make an author successful like copying things that were unpopular before.
MacFarlane: “I want to talk about these books and stories that don’t get a lot of attention, and expand the kind of stories we read and create.”
Correia: “Copying unpopular stuff will make you unsuccessful!”
Hines: “Huh???”
That process of (re)discovery is probably inescapable. A bookshop, a library or a friend’s/family member’s bookshelves can’t contain every book ever published, so new readers will always have to actively seek out stories beyond the first ones they encounter. What if, El-Mohtar wonders, the first books often included Naomi Mitchison? What if the first books often included multiple post-binary texts as well?
Wait… So the purpose of reading is to get people to accept non-binary gender? Well, huh… All this time I’ve been under the impression people primarily read for enjoyment. So that’s what I’ve been doing wrong!
Bored now. I hope Correia moves on to something new and interesting soon. The same old misreading and straw-manning is getting dull.
The English professor says: “For young people and new readers, wouldn’t it be nice if we shoved IMPORTANT WORKS about Special Topic X down their throats rather than something they might enjoy? Now I wonder why most Americans don’t read for fun anymore after we beat them over the head through their entire education and forced them to read tedious classics until reading was seen as a chore… Odd.”
And for the small and dwindling percentage of us that still actually like to buy and read books, what I’m getting from this blogger is that they’re thinking “Let’s get this mind blowing stuff out there. Yeah, that’ll rock their little bourgeois world!” Okay, dude… They’re SCIENCE FICTION readers. You’re probably not going to stun them with your big shocking ideas. You really want to shock a sci-fi reader with your book nowadays? Actually entertain them.
As an interesting side note, the Guardian just did a report that revealed how much published authors really make. For most of us, it isn’t that much. I think the average was like 30k. The majority of published writers still have their day jobs. Only the top 1% made six figures.
I am the 1%.
So aspiring authors, if you want to actually make a living doing this, you can either listen to me and put story first, or you can listen to the grad student and focus on the pet message of the day.
Regular readers will know that I always say writers should have GET PAID in their mission statement, the reason I do that is because most of us DON’T.
Correia makes more money than you. Therefore he’s right.
I’ll certainly grant that Larry Correia is a successful writer. Therefore you should do what he does.
So is Ursula LeGuin. Who wrote an amazing novel about non-binary gender that’s still popular today. Therefore you should do what she does.
Look, NOBODY IS SAYING THAT STORY ISN’T IMPORTANT, or that you shouldn’t put story first. What they’re saying is that there are more stories out there, and more characters, and more possibilities to explore.
Conversations about gender in SF have been taking place for a long time. I want to join in.
Judging by how they’ve been “grooming” the comments there, when they say conversations they mean shut up and listen while they lecture you about something.
[Citation needed]
I want more readers to be aware of texts old and new, and seek them out, and talk about them. I want more writers to stop defaulting to binary gender in their SF—I want to never again read entire anthologies of SF stories or large-cast novels where every character is binary-gendered. I want this conversation to be louder.
Read that paragraph again and think about it… Think about it really hard. Nuts and bolts. Every single SF book, he wants to default to something other than what your audience thinks is normal. I want more people to seek out not just great books, or mind bending books, but books. Period.
Yep. How dare she wish for books to more accurately reflect the diversity of the real world…
Speaking of great sci-fi, wouldn’t Firefly have been so much better if Captain Mal had been a pre-op transsexual? And just think of the hilarious banter they could have about Jayne not being a girl’s name… never mind, because in the future that is insensitive.
Of course, good writers will just write their characters so that they’re interesting and compelling, rather than to check a box to make a special interest group happy. If I’m writing a story and it would make the story better to have some character be something other than the default, then I can put that in. If it doesn’t have a point, then it is a distraction to the reader.
Characters who are not straight or white or cisgendered male or whatever Larry Correia thinks of as the default have a reason to be included in the story. (Fortunately, white dudes like me don’t need a reason to exist. We’re the normal ones, you see. We’re supposed to be here.)
Here’s a reason: because people other than your narrow-minded “default” exist in the world. Because if you want to write a story that’s in any way reflective of the real world, you have to acknowledge that fact.
Except even then, a Hatey McHaterton like me will still probably do it wrong. There was a bad guy in Swords of Exodus named Diego. This guy was an enforcer for an international crime syndicate. He participated in underground knife fighting arenas against Yakuza and Russian Mafia members for fun. Diego could match Lorenzo in a fight. He was also a gay cross dresser who made a very convincing Celine Dion, so obviously, I got a review that talked about how I hate gay people… Even though in a book where almost all of the characters, including the protagonists, are some degree of bad guy, obviously this character is a demonstration of my homophobic hatey hate mongering.
Then there’s Big Eddie, but really, you can’t think of Eddie that way. His sexual orientation was Hurt People. If you were to give him a psych evaluation to see what his “gender identity” was, he’d check all the boxes, then burn the test and stab the psychologist.
As far as a character’s proclivities, for all you know my books are filled with pre-op transsexuals, only I’m not going to stop and talk about them and what they do off screen. In fact, the only time I talk about a character’s feelings on any topic in a book are when that helps flesh out that character in a manner that helps tell the story I want to tell.
“See, I wrote about a gay cross dresser, so you can’t accuse me of being homophobic!”
To that end, I’ll be running this column: posting every two weeks, with discussions of books and short stories, as well as interviews and roundtables with other writers and readers of post-binary SF,
Oh good. Because this topic really needs to be beaten home. I hear that there are actually some consumers out there who still actually read sci-fi, and we will never rest until this genre becomes so incredibly boring that we drive everyone away!
because I strongly believe it’s important to hear multiple voices.
Just not the ones that disagree in the blog comments.
Again, try reading the comments. Also, you seem to be accusing MacFarlane of deleting comments, when I suspect it’s the Tor.com staff who are responsible for moderating. I’m not 100% sure on that, but I suspect you’ve got your snark crossed here.
I’m particularly interested in science fiction at the moment, but I expect I’ll cross genres as I run the column.
Yeah. I can’t wait until he gets to urban fantasy. Yay.
I hope you’ll join me in making the default increasingly unstable.
Wow. Yeah. I’ll show you, Dad! You can’t tell me what do! Down with your cismale gendernormative fascism!
And back to the mockery and criticizing the author’s age rather than her ideas.
#
Well that was fun. My congratulations to anyone who read this far.
A reminder: I do moderate comments here, because I’m a freedom-hating commie I don’t have time or interest in trolls, name-calling, threats, etc. You’re welcome to comment, but as Wil Wheaton says, don’t be a dick.
Simple Desultory Philip
January 30, 2014 @ 10:50 pm
That word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Simple Desultory Philip
January 30, 2014 @ 11:08 pm
And you can never ever go back to the page and check. Because, you know, GLAAD has no interest in keeping people up to date on these sorts of things.
Simple Desultory Philip
January 30, 2014 @ 11:18 pm
In addition, I think you might have a different experience if the black folks *you* care about all happened to prefer the word “Negro” in this day and age and would be offended to be called “black”. That would be fine for them, but they would certainly be in the minority from any objective standpoint. Your own experience counts for something, but it might be a good idea to refer to the community as a whole for what is a more broadly accepted term. This is an especially good idea if you don’t know many genderqueer individuals personally. The terms are evolving because awareness is growing and people are exploring ways to define themselves that cast off old stereotypes and connotations (just as “colored” and “Negro” have pretty much gone the way of the dodo). Just because something is changing a bit faster than you may be comfortable with isn’t a reason to simply throw up your hands and say screw it, not worth the effort, unpossible!
Bob Wilkins
January 31, 2014 @ 12:33 am
If you do, you will be missing some very good reading. I may not agree with most of what he writes on his blog, but his stories are great.
Bob Wilkins
January 31, 2014 @ 12:37 am
Hate much?
Grit
January 31, 2014 @ 12:43 am
you clearly didn’t get the message then.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 12:45 am
Why should I? And what good would it do? Again, the rapid changes to vocabulary followed by outraged screams at those who don’t want to follow along suggests a) control freaks, whom I have no interest in placating, or b) offense hunters, ditto.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 12:46 am
They aren’t. They don’t. If they were oversensitive offense hunters, they and I would probably never have shared the profession we did.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 12:54 am
You didn’t ask me but…Republican Rome. Byzantine Empire. A number of Egyptian dynasties. Chinese, too, I think. Ottomans. I won’t say Japanese because there was more form than substance, and more oligarchy than monarchy, to the imperial system. There are, however, reasons why Joe might – and I, too, btw – don’t think modern, as opposed to classical liberalism, can last very long at all.
Bob Wilkins
January 31, 2014 @ 1:03 am
for someone who wrote such a great book, your comprehension sucks.
Grit
January 31, 2014 @ 1:04 am
yeah, a pretty woman hitting on you would have stroked your ego, wouldn’t it? Women don’t get to choose who hits on them, and most men who do – and often enough cross lines doing so – consider themselves handsome enough, and that woman should be thankful to be getting the attention from such a handsome man, really. I mean, how could woman feel uncomfortable being hit on? Not to mention the verbal abuse that often enough follows if she dares to say no. Ugly bitch is just one of those words. I’m pretty sure that you can maybe imagine the rest. Btw, I’m German, so thanks for making it clear what you think of my country, and in extension, of me, because someone asked you to leave a place due to your being American. Once. You simply can’t compare that to what other people experience.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 2:15 am
Why, yes, Grit, it was a bit of an egoboo.
Sorry; I’m there, freezing my cojones off, to defend your country from the reds, and I am invited to leave? Yeah, that brings out the vindictive in me. However, since you, in most unteutonic fashion, seem to be confused over the scale of the thing, when did Nuremburg become synonymous with all of Germany? Oh, I know, it was during the Nazi party rallies, wasn’t it? Just before your gene pool sent abut half of mine up in smoke? Was that when?
[The hell? I go to bed, and you start talking about Nazis and making sweeping generalizations about people’s gene pools? I don’t know if you can see the irony there, but you’ve gone into the moderation queue, and the goblins will be munching on some of your follow-up comments. -Jim]
Grit
January 31, 2014 @ 2:19 am
that was before my time, sorry. If you had defended my country against the reds, I wouldn’t have had to grow up under their communist dictatorship so excuse me, if I’m not grateful enough. So yes, there was a part of Germany that didn’t get rescued by Western Allies and on top of that was given to those “reds” to do with it as they please, which – let me reassure you on that – they did.
“And in that moment, I wished the war had lasted long enough for us to have nuked the place.”
That statement pretty much sounds like you are talking about all of Germany. I apologize if I have misread it but you may see why I have done so. It is very much misleading.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 2:29 am
Okay, so after your country starts the war, and mine and the Russians defeat it, my country is supposed to go to war to rescue you from the people who didn’t do half to yours what yours did to them? Nah; don’t think so.
If you grew up under a communist dictatorship, blame your own people for starting a war and then losing it, not mine for not winning it quicker, or for not being willing to go to war to free you from the people yours had tried to enslave, if not even exterminate. The country I was defending was the BRD of the day, West Germany, which contained Nuremburg, “the place” referenced, but was not synonymous with it. It was not apparently _your_ country of the day, as you admit to growing up in the DDR. So you’re really being most unteutonically imprecise here.
Grit
January 31, 2014 @ 2:49 am
I’m not blaming you or whoever country that isn’t Germany for the war. I am well aware who was responsible for it. And I just looked up your website, you were born in 1956 so you weren’t even part of that war. I assume you simply got stationed in Germany as part of your military carreer. At that time you weren’t even defending Germany from the Sovjet Union. You were just there. So don’t give me all that arrogant ego crap about “my country saved you”. Yeah your country maybe, not you. You don’t have anything to do with that just like I have nothing to do with what people in my country did back then. So in 1976 you were a 20 year old guy being asked to leave because of – as you are saying – your being American.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 2:58 am
[Smudge got to this comment before the goblins could. By the time they chased him off, all that remained was a bit of charred, illegible insult, unfit even for goblin consumption.]
Giliell
January 31, 2014 @ 3:10 am
I always find it very telling when authors and readers alike can imagine worlds with magic, dragons, elves, spacships that go against the laws of physics as we know them but NOT a world that actually reflects the one we live in more truthfully because diversity exists here and now.
When somebody thinks that there needs to be a REASON for a non-binary, non-white, non-straight person to be in a story except for “those people exist and therefore they exist in stories” then it betrays their own, limited mindset.
As far as I can see nobody ever asked for checklists and quotas. And no, “I don’t want to ever read again” doesn’t count, because we all realize that this kind of hyperbole is actually a pretty common use of language. Unless those people also think that a parent ending a discussion with “I don’t want to hear another word” is either asking for the kid to never ever open their mouth again or is whishing that somebody would surgically remove their own ears.
I also don’t know if Correira is actually aware of it, but English is rather the exception than the norm when it comes to gender in languages languages. Nope, not only those who got their grammar from Cesar have heavily gendered forms. And you know what? It’s something I LOVE about English. I actually love it how it makes me challenge my perceptions and defaults. How I am led astray by the description of a person of power or authority (the captain, the inspector, the guard)and then notice how my brain which has read a thousand stories where those characters were always male defaults to male, only to stumble about a female pronoun. Or when the lover turns out to be same-sex. Or trans*. Or non-white.
I have the suspicion that those who are so very much opposed to the casual existence of people who are not straight white cis guys and who don’t have a good REASON to be there make the same experiences I make, only that they really, really, really don’t like it and think that it’s “preachy” to have those characters in the stories just as if they were people and not odd curiosities.
Grit
January 31, 2014 @ 3:16 am
So, you were stationed there, in a country where only 30 years previously a terrible war had ended. Where their own soldiers were treated like shit, where the whole world was telling them they sucked because of their country’s past. Where their own military was cut short because nothing like WW2 should ever happen again. Where young men got stationed in their front yard with the “oh we saved you” attitude, “be a little grateful” and “oh we’re defending you against the reds”. And you’re suprised you got asked to leave. I’m surprised they didn’t actually kick you out beating you senseless.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 3:32 am
It is you, Grit, or Germans _just_ like you who made Nazism what it was.
[The goblins fed the rest of this comment to the lizard-fish, but are leaving this particular line just in case anyone tries to argue that Mr. Kratman was being “polite” or “civil,” or that his comments are being removed for disagreement instead of over-the-top dickishness. -Jim]
Grit
January 31, 2014 @ 3:35 am
I was indeed getting a little carried away there, and I apologize for my working on assumptions alone.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 3:49 am
You’re not working on assumptions, you’re working on unquestioning prejudices. Why, for example, do you suppose I spoke rather good German, with a flawless accent? (Two accents, actually, which may have been slightly flawed, but when you use a Bavarian accent in Northern Germany and the Pfalz, and a northern accent down in Bayern and Schwaben, they don’t hear what might be slightly off, so effectively flawless.) Self taught, then polished in Gymnasium and travelling there while a student. Why? Because, despite gassing a bunch of relatives I’d never met, I still liked Germany and I still liked Germans. Why do you suppose I was so offended? How about because despite the same copious flaws on display here, I still liked Germany and still liked Germans? I still do, actually, though you have made that marginally more difficult than it used to be.
Grit
January 31, 2014 @ 3:58 am
I was working on assumptions, not on unquestioning prejudices. Talking about nuking a part of the country I live in because of one shitty experience hit a nerve with me, and I am not of much use when I get emotional. I can assure that I’m not self-rightous or lack any introspective. I have met a lot of Americans in my time, most were pretty decent human beings, some did however display of arrogant we are better than you attitude, and yes, that does cloud my judgement when it comes to certain topics. Especially when someone hit a nerve, and then I tend to go off like a bomb, which is something I’m working on because insults don’t help anyone in discussions. WW2 is a sore spot in Germany’s history and yes, maybe not all but many Germans tend to get overly sensitive when the topic comes to that. Again, I do apologize.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 4:05 am
I am unconvinced…but, in a spirit of international chumship and hands across the sea, it might help you if you read more carefully. For example, what does the phrase, “And in that moment,” mean? Does it mean it lasted? Are you sure? Does it mean a long term, never to be gotten rid of, hatred of all things Teutonic? Are you sure? Or does it mean “I was angry for a moment, and got over it,” hmmm?
Grit
January 31, 2014 @ 4:06 am
that part gets forgotten easily once you get to the rest of the sentence and your blood starts boiling.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 4:10 am
Then work on it.
Grit
January 31, 2014 @ 4:23 am
which I said, I am 😉
Jennifer
January 31, 2014 @ 7:42 am
I know it’s late in her series, but I liked ‘A Civil Campaign’ by Lois McMaster Bujold. The trans stuff is a subplot, but I really enjoyed it.
Jim C. Hines
January 31, 2014 @ 8:01 am
Okay, I’m not sure how Mr. Kratman making offhand comments about wanting to nuke a German city ends up with another commenter apologizing to him, or Kratman explaining that it wasn’t a long-term hatred, as if that somehow makes the initial comment okay. I’m curious how he would react to similarly “offhand” comments about nuking U.S. cities.
But not curious enough to let the conversation continue. This thread is now dead. With a stake through the heart, the head cut off, and the mouth stuffed with garlic.
Jim C. Hines
January 31, 2014 @ 8:07 am
“Why do you suppose I was so offended?”
Should we assume it’s because you’re an oversensitive offense hunter?
Linkspam: 01/31/14 — The Radish.
January 31, 2014 @ 10:01 am
[…] […]
Morgan
January 31, 2014 @ 1:28 pm
“There you go, arguing for more labels to define, categorize, and limit people.”
Hi. I’m genderqueer. Knowing that “genderqueer” is an available and viable identity — that I don’t have to choose male or female — has been opened up my world incredibly, not limited it. My life is so much better now, and many people I know have had their minds opened by knowing that people like me exist.
I have trouble understanding how my choosing to use a word that accurately describes my gender identity is limiting to you or anyone else.
CatHeader
January 31, 2014 @ 1:29 pm
So many angry little men getting all upset that their microwaved, spoon-fed ideas about gender and sex are wrong.
Suck it up, cupcake. 🙂
CatHeader
January 31, 2014 @ 1:31 pm
Yup, us thought policing queer folk, being so MEAN to the poor, poor little straight people when they write insulting and stereotypical depictions of us. I feel your pain, sad little straight dude. 🙁
CatHeader
January 31, 2014 @ 1:37 pm
‘She seemed to think that every story should have someone who was GLBT, or LGBT. You see it written both ways, which I don’t understand either, if you are GAY, there is no such thing as “ladies first”, and if you are “inclusive” there should be an S for straight. Maybe I think about things to much and that’s why i couldn’t understand what she was talking about.’
No, straight person, your problem is that you don’t think about things enough.
Also? Trying to lecture the queer community on how we should format our own acronym makes you a fucking asshole.
Also? No, there should not be an ‘S’ for straight. Because straight people are not a vulnerable, oppressed minority. No straight person has ever been murdered, disowned or violated just for being straight.
I swear to God, straighties like you are the absolute worst. We’re over here, trying to survive, trying to prevent the erosion of our basic human rights, trying to get a tiny, tiny amount of representation in mass media, and you’re sitting over there on your smug, smug little ass whining about including an S. Fucking incredible.
Morgan
January 31, 2014 @ 1:40 pm
Hi. I’m genderqueer. I can only speak for myself, but I promise not to scream at you if you attempt to use a correct term for someone like me and get it a little bit wrong. If I’m in the mood, sometimes I will write to the author to thank them for the effort and affirmation that people like me exist, and politely mention that the term they used was outdated. I’ll usually provide a current resource where they can look up the current preferred terms too.
I’m always thrilled when an author has made a clear effort to be inclusive. We’re all human, none of us get it perfectly right all the time. But it’s the effort that matters to me, and to the other non-binary people I know.
CatHeader
January 31, 2014 @ 1:44 pm
Ah, yes, battle cry of the whining straight: ‘I don’t MIND having you filthy queers in my books and in my television, as long as you don’t REMIND me of your filthy queerness.’
Cry harder. 🙂
Morgan
January 31, 2014 @ 1:48 pm
Demetrias, all we’re really asking is that authors think about why they’re making their characters cisgender and if doing so has a purpose that serves the story. If there is no strong story-related reason why a character must be cisgender, consider making them non-cisgender from time to time. It’s not that big a thing. I honestly don’t understand why you’re so averse to the idea.
Also, for people like me who are non-binary, the default does need to change. A lot of the depression I’ve dealt with in my life was because I didn’t know until I was 21 that non-binary identities were an option, and it’s taken a decade for me to really feel safe and confident enough to come out an start living openly as a genderqueer person. If I’d known when I was a child or a teenager who didn’t feel comfortable identifying as either female or male that there was a third option, I could probably have avoided many years of confusion, self-doubt and self-loathing.
So please, consider that for those of us being told that our identities aren’t important enough to include in most stories, or that we straight out don’t exist, the factory settings are extremely broken. It’s time for change.
CatHeader
January 31, 2014 @ 1:50 pm
‘promote conformity with whatever groupthink in in vogue is another’
Ah, yes, this old chestnut. By asking bigoted straighties to be just a little, little bit considerate of our rights and needs, the LGBTI community is promoting ‘groupthink’.
It’s actually amazing how insecure straight people are. You bombard us with bigoted, heteronormative messages our whole lives, and we don’t succumb to ‘groupthink.’ But the second we invite you to engage with some of OUR issues, suddenly you’re terrified that we’re going to brainwash you, and then invade Poland.
CatHeader
January 31, 2014 @ 1:53 pm
[Whatever I might think of the sentiment, I’ve been asking that we avoid blatant insults/name-calling please. Thanks. -Jim]
Morgan
January 31, 2014 @ 1:58 pm
Glad to know that people like me (genderqueer) and my partner (transgender) are a joke to you. I will make a point not to buy your books.
BarbK
January 31, 2014 @ 2:52 pm
“Why shouldn’t it be the default?”
The question is: Why must there be a default in the first place?
When I was growing up, there was a riddle that went something like: A man is driving with his son in the car, and there is an accident. Desperately, he takes the child to the hospital emergency room, where it’s determine that an operation is needed to save the boy’s life. The child is prepped, and the surgeon runs in and then stops, exclaiming, “I can’t operate on this boy! This is my son!” The riddle was: How can this be?
The answer to the riddle was: The surgeon is the boy’s mother.
The only reason the riddle worked (and yes, it did work) was because the default thinking was at the time that any surgeon had to be male — if you could stretch your mind to the possibility that the surgeon was a woman, you were thinking well outside the box. Today, most kids would come up with the answer immediately — and wonder why it’s supposed to be a riddle in the first place. Because that default no longer exists. (Note: At the time, the idea that the surgeon could have been the man’s male husband was not only outside the box, but outside the county the box was located in.)
That is what defaults do — they force you to think inside a box, the kind of limited thinking that science fiction is supposed to discourage. Again, nobody is saying that you can’t use a 20-something heroic white male character with blond hair, blue eyes and lotsa muscles as your main character. But why should that — or anything — be the default? If you’re writing imaginative fiction, can’t your imagination stretch to include a variety of hero types?
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 3:06 pm
Jim:
That’s cute, but no, you should not.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 3:09 pm
Morgan:
Yes, but, as you say, you’re not everybody. I appreciate the thought, though, and the (in its better sense) liberality of the sentiment.
You _might_ be interested in the Tercio Gorgidas in The Amazon Legion. Or you might not. People have asked me to write up the Tercio Gorgidas’ story, but I always bow out; I’m just not qualified to understand the internal dynamics of a regiment of married gays. Probably nobody has been since Gorgidas, Epaminondas, and Pelopidas.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 3:14 pm
[I’m tired of the “you’re just looking for reasons to be offended” nonsense. This comment was therefore given to the fire-spider to use as nesting material. -Jim]
Jim C. Hines
January 31, 2014 @ 3:18 pm
Tom – Then it would be nice if you didn’t keep making the same assumption about others.
Morgan
January 31, 2014 @ 3:21 pm
“As if any one cared.” Yes, because people so often go out of their way to write comments on topics they don’t care about. I would say the fact that there’s a lengthy discussion about this here shows that quite a few people — including, apparently, you — care about this. I certainly do.
Morgan
January 31, 2014 @ 3:31 pm
Actually, it does matter to those of us who (virtually) never see people like us represented in stories. When you feel extremely marginalized and erased in your identity, it’s really, really affirming to see a depiction of yourself in fiction. And it’s also a good feeling to know that other people will encounter that character and hopefully have their minds opened a little bit, so that they may not say “no you’re not!” or just plain “wut?” when you come out to them as non-binary.
Seeing more trans* people represented in pop culture will almost certainly lead to easier acceptance of us by the societies we live in. So in the end, to those of us who are actually marginalized, this actually matters quite a lot.
Morgan
January 31, 2014 @ 3:41 pm
“I’m not of the opinion that there is any arbitrary necessity or moral obligation for art to mimic life or, even if it does to a degree, mimic closely. Nor am I of the opinion that there is any arbitrary necessity or moral obligation for life to mimic art.”
The thing is, it’s not arbitrary for all of us. I am actually genderqueer. I actually have my gender erased and ignored by my dominant culture on a daily basis, and I didn’t even have a word with which to identify myself until I was in my 20s, because no one had ever told me that the gender binary isn’t absolute. So for those of us who are marginalized and erased, it’s not just about life imitating art. It’s about knowing that these identities exist at all, so that people don’t go “WTF?” quite as often when I out myself. Not having to do the 101 every time I want to come out to someone, because they’ve never even heard of my gender identity before.
Does this mean that every author should have to include trans* characters in their stories? Absolutely not. But for those of us who do actually identify as trans* — and especially as non-binary — the stakes are a lot higher than you seem to think. I just wanted to mention it, since I’m not sure if you’ve considered that before. Overall, though, I appreciate that you’ve got a nuanced point of view. That’s always very nice to see in threads like this.
Morgan
January 31, 2014 @ 3:46 pm
Ugh, I know, right? Because, similar to trans* people, differently abled people are only there to be dismissed and/or made the butt of jokes, not to be treated seriously as human beings and potential characters. I’m not surprised that his prejudices against other marginalized groups came out while he was dissing non-binary people, but that doesn’t make it any less infuriating and awful.
Morgan
January 31, 2014 @ 3:48 pm
Ah, thank you for making me aware of Alex’s personal blog! I’ll be following that regularly too now. 🙂
Morgan
January 31, 2014 @ 4:04 pm
I think you said this beautifully. Thank you for being willing to be challenged and work through your discomfort in the interest of acknowledging and accepting people like me. It’s truly appreciated. (Yeah, I know it’s generally considered bad form to give a cookie to someone just for being an ally; but when I’ve read through a comments section like this one, I just can’t resist the urge to say thank you. 🙂
Funnily enough, even for some of us who do identify outside the binary, it can be hard to wrap our heads around non-binary identity at first. I was super confused the first time I encountered the idea of genderqueerness, but after some examination, I realized it was the first gender identity word that felt like it actually might fit how I’ve always felt. Still threw me for a loop initially, though. I hope that in the not-too-distant future, trans* identities will be widely recognized enough that none of us will have to get over a hump of disbelief to accept and understand trans* and non-binary people anymore — especially when that person is one’s own self.
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 4:45 pm
Typical. Sure, toss out the good with the bad and leave Morgan in ignorance as to what the post actually says.
[Tom, you’ve posted about 50 comments here. If you haven’t been able to make your point by now, it ain’t gonna happen. It’s time for you to stop wasting everybody’s time. -Jim]
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 4:48 pm
[Predictable whining that moderating comments = “leftist thought control,” etc. The goblins say thank you for the tasty comment, but it was a bit high in empty calories.]
Tom Kratman
January 31, 2014 @ 4:57 pm
[Yadda, yadda, “thoughtcrime,” yadda yadda, “no offense was intended,” yadda, yadda, “free speech,” yadda, yadda, goblin snack food.]
JMS
January 31, 2014 @ 5:33 pm
“Subjective” is not a bad thing. All readers’ responses to fiction are subjective.
The specter of Gratuitous Diversity and other fictions | Strange Alphabets
January 31, 2014 @ 6:08 pm
[…] SF that studies that issue. I read the piece, enjoyed it, and moved on. Then I saw, much later (via Jim C. Hines’ blog), that MacFarlane’s article (predictably) rattled the nerves of certain quarters of the SF […]
Simon Dewar
January 31, 2014 @ 6:56 pm
It is not unreasonable for you to feel that way. I don’t blame you and like to think, as much as a cisgender male can understand that I do understand.
I think, ultimately, that what is lost in the discussion sometimes. Not arbitrary for all and Is arbitrary for all are conflated to some degree.
As for the stakes being higher, I get that. But I’d still say: write the book you want to read and encourage others to do so. If you don’t like a book (for poor portrayal or non-portrayal of LGBT issues) give it an honest review, or don’t read it. I totally support you in doing that but I still don’t think that there should be any moral obligation on writers to write anything other than what they either want to write or are capable of comfortable in writing. And I still don’t think that if they don’t write a book that has LGBT characters, that its inherently worse or bad by default — in the same way I don’t think that if they do write one that its inherently worse or bad or just a “message” book.
I wont lie.. part of my opinion comes from me being a writer, myself. I write male and female characters and protagonists. Last 2 protagonists have been female. I write characters of different race as well. For the most part though, I havent written and LBGT characters because I simply don’t relate or, especially, understand any differences or issues they face and how they think/feel/etc. I’m not saying I wont in the future understand better in future and write LBGT characters but right now, I’m honest in saying that I don’t and would do a really shit job of it if I were to try. I don’t what that and i’m sure LBGT people wouldn’t either.
Having said that, I”m not going to stop writing now and research the LGBT people and issues until i feel i am comfortable to do so and then begin writing again… and I refuse to think that my past work or current projects are inherently or morally crap because they haven’t yet included LBGT people nor do I think that much of the great literature of the past is inherantly or morally crap because it didn’t include LGBT characters/issues.
Simon Dewar
January 31, 2014 @ 7:14 pm
ugh sorry for the gibberish reply there. 🙂
dave
January 31, 2014 @ 8:59 pm
I was just going to leave this alone, I have other things to do. But, I saw someone put an “I” in your acronym. I have no earthly idea what that means, as in LGBTI. Yes, i am straight. But I have never,not now, not ever, called a person Queer. that is a demeaning expression. If you choose to abase yourself, and bath in victimhood, please do. But don’t include me in your sepaku. i am not perfect, I did refer to a young lady as Chinese, since she was born in Shanghai, and was informed that she was “Asian”. I did not call her a Cunt, because i don’t like that word either. There are several others on the list that I don’t use. Words that are rude, hurtful and impolite.
Yes my ass is little. I work out. Yes it does have a hole. No, it is not for sex. Since you call me a straightie, would you prefer to be called a “bendy”? Just asking, no insult intended. You say that i don’t think enough, you might see if you thought more, that the 96% of people who are not “bendies” or genderbent are having trouble keeping up with the latest “IN” phrase. It’s like walking blindfolded through a cow pasture.
I assure you that none of this is smug, smug or ass whining. It might be cismale gendernormal, I don’t know. I’m still grappling with politically correct bit of fluff.
Take your foot OFF the throttle of Controversy… | Kate Jourdan
February 1, 2014 @ 12:18 am
[…] Just like that, another author named Jim C. Hines chimed in. Apparently, he is a twitter friend with the author of the original post. I saw some comments between them and thought, Good, now we can see a couple of authors other than me debate this. Little did I know that it was nothing like mock trials in college. You can find Mr Hines’ post here: http://www.jimchines.com/2014/01/fiskception/ […]
Lenora Rose
February 1, 2014 @ 1:02 am
Can I just ask whether you ever read a character presented as a cis white male and wonder “Why does the author include that? Is that foreshadowing? Is that going to be relevant to the choices the character makes?” Or is it only if the character is trans*, or Japanese, or female?
Explain to me why Mako Mori is any less plausible than Raleigh Becket as a Jaeger pilot? Explain why the moment she appeared on screen you had to think “Why does the author include that? Is that foreshadowing? Is that going to be relevant to the choices the character makes?” but didn’t ask the same question of the Becket Brothers at the very start?
Lenora Rose
February 1, 2014 @ 1:08 am
So now you’re saying that you’re too lazy a writer to do basic research. Looking up the term people use to call themselves is no harder, in fact, than double checking a map of a city to make sure the street corner you mention actually exists.
Lenora Rose
February 1, 2014 @ 1:13 am
And as a woman, i don’t want the default in every story to be hero=male. As a bisexual, I don’t want the default in every story to be hero/ine=straight (EVEN THOUGH I do expect that to be and remain the majority, which is not the same as the default.)
I want it to seem natural, not a “Look, you had to swap out a basic component here” to read about a pansexual forty some trans heroine instead of a white teenaged Farmboy/prince Luke Skywalker clone (Or worse, another Arnie clone). EVEN THOUGH I expect that the latter will be rarer, it should not have the sense of “They picked a *weird* protagonist. And I’m eternally confused why this should be controversial.
Lenora Rose
February 1, 2014 @ 1:31 am
Once again; 30 seconds of actual research is somehow too difficult because it’s on a topic that doesn’t hit you directly. But spending multitudinous words complaining about how difficult it is somehow becomes easy, even though it takes more time and more thought than the research would.
G: Gay (Male)
L: Lesbian
B: Bi
T: Trans*
T: Two-spirited (a Native North American religious and gender based belief, I think Anishinaabe/Ojibway/Chippewa based but could be wrong. Doesn’t crop up as much in the US as in Canada that I’ve seen)
I: Intersex
U: Undecided
Q: Queer/genderqueer
The order doesn’t matter, though some people have preferences. A frequent cutesy suggestion for fitting the majority in is “Quiltbag”.
Lenora Rose
February 1, 2014 @ 1:34 am
I *think* that was meant to be a dig that obviously Jim isn’t a real man and therefore is feminine. Why that’s an insult is beyond me….
Lenora Rose
February 1, 2014 @ 1:39 am
Just to say I really like this comment. I ahve nothing to add, but I think support needs to be said.
Grit
February 1, 2014 @ 1:41 am
pretty simple: even in this modern day and age being a woman is a bad thing. You know, like “be a man” because the opposite would be to be a woman because that is bad, even worse, when you are a man. We even tell that our sons as they grow up.
dave
February 1, 2014 @ 1:58 am
Thank You Lenora. I like Quiltbag! i will admit that i did not take the time to google. I usually do, but i sorta got side tracked on the idea of a tri-gender alien that communicated by making whining noises from it’s ass. An Ass Whiner. That tickles my sense of humor.
Sally
February 1, 2014 @ 2:06 am
Dear Philip:
I am kind of hoping there is a Genderqueer High Mufti of SF, and while he/she/zie/them shouldn’t force everyone to put drag queens everywhere, I think it would be great if zie could go door to door and offer drag queens for all.
Sally
February 1, 2014 @ 2:21 am
I like “Quiltbag” because it’s a word you can actually pronounce. I think maybe the A stands for asexual. Or possibly just b/c you can’t say “quiltbg”.
Marguerite
February 1, 2014 @ 4:26 am
Honestly, I thought it was just a typo of “Herr”. Either way, I’m convinced it was meant to be an insult of some sort.
Fiona Warner
February 1, 2014 @ 7:40 am
Uh…Correia is a guy.
And yes, I find this comment incredibly ironic, considering the subject matter.
Grit
February 1, 2014 @ 7:46 am
no, he simply dismissed her arguments because she said she’s hardly a child even though the book she referenced was written almost 2 decades before she was born, so naturally, someone in their mid-twenties or late twenties has nothing noteworthy to contribute to the discussion. So yeah, basically it was “She’s wrong because I’m older than her.”
Fiona Warner
February 1, 2014 @ 7:48 am
What an incredibly passive-aggressive way to tell someone you don’t like them. Instead, why don’t you come up with reasons why you don’t like the guy? The guy might not be great (HAAAAA) but like Bob pointed out, his books are pretty darn good.
Jim C. Hines
February 1, 2014 @ 10:06 am
I’m pretty sure Ken is well aware of that, and was simply responding to Mr. Correia with the same respect Correia had offered to MacFarlane.
dave
February 1, 2014 @ 10:27 am
Morgan, really i was sitting around waiting to see if my water pipes were going to freeze. Sorta like watching paint dry, only with the exiting option of crawling under the house when it 9 deg. outside. A couple weeks ago, the pipes burst and the water shorted out the furnace. So i was motivated to stay awake.
“as if any one cared” about my opinion. Yes, i am always surprised when someone cares what i say. To keep to the topic, Is there a “default gender”… yes. Should there be a “default gender”…yes. Should there be gender benders in literature…of course. In a post i made that Jim Hines deleted ( he felt it offensive and maybe pointless?) I tried to show that if you removed the human from the question, there would still be a default gender, only without the angst. i would ask too, why is the human always the default? Why do the aliens in SF have two arms, two legs and a head? Why do they always speak with an English accent?
Again, i don’t expect anyone to care about my opinion, so I’ll just leave it at that.
dave
February 1, 2014 @ 10:32 am
considering what i have been called lately, maybe the “A” stands for asshole
Grit
February 1, 2014 @ 10:41 am
Quite a few writers have deviated from the aliens-look-like-humans form in the past. A.C.Crispin and Peter F. Hamilton are the first that spring to my mind, Hamilton, because I have been reading him a lot lately.
Actually, Ursula K. LeGuin approached it the other way around than you did: She removed gender from the equation and still had humans.
Morgan
February 1, 2014 @ 11:26 am
Hi dave. Could you please not continue to make jokes about “tri-gender aliens”? As a person who is actually genderqueer, I find that dismissive of my identity, and of the identities of others similar to me. It’s hurtful, and I would appreciate it if you could be more thoughtful and compassionate. Since you said yourself that you avoid using “words that are rude, hurtful and impolite”, I hope that you will take this to heart, since I can pretty much guarantee that the other genderqueer and non-binary people I know would be hurt by those kinds of jokes too. Thanks.
Also, please note that “queer” is no longer a put-down for much of the queer community, especially its younger members. Not everyone agrees on this, but many of us (especially those of us who don’t fit neatly into the gay/straight and male/female binaries) choose to self-describe that way. Since you self-describe as straight, and I assume from your comments that you are not trans*, it’s advisable for you to not use the word unless you know for sure it wouldn’t be hurtful to the person you’re talking to. (Just basic thoughtfulness, you know how it goes.) But please don’t tell us that we’re abasing ourselves by reclaiming and taking the teeth out of a word that has been used to hurt us. Because that’s really the point: when you use it to describe yourself, it doesn’t hurt as much anymore when someone else tries to use it as an insult. I hope that helps you understand a bit better why CatHeader might have used “queer” in the context they did.
Morgan
February 1, 2014 @ 11:30 am
In my experience, QUILTBAG usually stands for: Queer, Undecided/Unlabelled, Intersex, Lesbian, Trans*, Bisexual, Asexual, Gay.
I love QUILTBAG because it’s adorable (and because I was introduced to it through Rose Fox’s blog, and she is a-ma-zing!). But in more serious contexts, these days I’m really liking GSRM (gender, sexual and romantic minorities). It’s pretty widely encompassing, and doesn’t run as much risk of leaving anybody out. Since I’m ace and genderqueer (two of the identities that until recently have often been overlooked), that’s important to me. 🙂
Morgan
February 1, 2014 @ 12:23 pm
Um, I was replying to your first comment, in which you stated “My two cents? As if anyone cared” about the idea of trying to break down the binary as the default. And I was making the point that a lot of people seem to care about that, even when we’re coming from different sides of the argument. (Though I must admit, I’m still baffled as to why the inclusion and recognition of people like me in pop culture and literature is something that we need to argue about at all.) I wasn’t thinking about your personal opinion, I was quoting something you said and replying directly to the statement. If I misunderstood what your OP, though, then my bad.
The portrayal of aliens doesn’t really enter into this discussion, since this is about actual human gender identities, rather than imaginary species. How aliens are portrayed doesn’t effect how people treat me in my day-to-day life as a genderqueer person. The lack of genderqueer people in pop culture and the media, on the other hand, does. Please try to stick to the topic at hand, thanks.
Morgan
February 1, 2014 @ 12:35 pm
Hi Jim. I’ve been commenting here a fair bit over the past couple days. (Which I hope is okay. I always feel a bit uneasy about popping up on the personal blog of someone who doesn’t know me and getting involved in the conversation there. Since I haven’t seen many other self-identified non-binary people participating in this conversation yet, I felt a strong need to make my own voice heard. I hope I haven’t overstepped myself anywhere, though.)
I’ve been so caught up in that, I forgot about what I originally came here to do — which is to thank you for writing this post, and for fisking Correia’s. Without your commentary, reading Correia’s screed would have been very painful for me. While I’m still infuriated at almost everything he said and implied, reading his post through the lens of your fisking broke the thing up, made me laugh, and reminded me every few lines that there are allies out there who care as much about this as I do. Thank you very, very much for that. It means more to me than I can easily express. I’m so glad that my trans* brethren and I have someone like you on our side.
Elizabeth McClellan (@popelizbet)
February 1, 2014 @ 2:18 pm
Morgan – Rose Fox prefers “they” pronouns as they do not identify as a woman.
Morgan
February 1, 2014 @ 2:24 pm
Thank you, Elizabeth, I didn’t know that they are trans*-identified too! I’ll make sure to use their PGP from now on. I really appreciate the correction. 🙂
Tom Kratman
February 1, 2014 @ 2:34 pm
[Maybe I wasn’t clear, but this is not the space for people to come try to argue about how people asking to be addressed and referred to in certain ways is like the dehumanization that led to the Holocaust. So let me try to be a little more blunt. All of your Nazi/Holocaust comparisons will be fed to the goblins and the fire-spider. No matter how “politely” they’re written. -Jim]
Tom Kratman
February 1, 2014 @ 2:52 pm
Morgan and Lenora, in a cutting edge display of liberal tolerance for free speech, free thought, and free inquiry, Jim has taken to redacting or obliterating my comments, or leaving them in moderation limbo. You can see where he redacted or obliterated, so at least you know I tried, but I don’t want you to think I just blew you off on any of them, so for my answers to you that remain in moderation limbo, I’ve copied and posted them on larry’s column, http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/ending-binary-gender-in-fiction-or-how-to-murder-your-writing-career/#comment-55729
» State of the Shannon: Fairy tales and fangirl flails Flight into Fantasy
February 1, 2014 @ 2:58 pm
[…] preachy and left-wing and boring, and why do feminazis have to ruin fun for everyone? Jim C. Hines rebutted that post nicely. (Again, don’t read the comments. I glanced at them as I was writing this post, and suddenly […]
Elizabeth McClellan (@popelizbet)
February 1, 2014 @ 3:38 pm
Once again, Tom makes the rookie mistake of claiming his free speech and freedom of thought are being impinged by not being allowed to say whatever he wants in a private forum paid for and maintained by someone else…his online living room, as Popehat & others put it.
Tom, I’m waiting for your home address. Your position on free speech leads me to assume I’m welcome to come recite obscene poetry in your actuak living room for hours without being interrupted or asked to leave, since you value my free expression so much. It’s rare that a person values my free speech so much, so I’m looking forward to it. Don’t you dare refuse, lest you be accused of intolerance for my free speech.
Elizabeth McClellan (@popelizbet)
February 1, 2014 @ 4:08 pm
Morgan, no worries. I don’t know how much they talk about it on their blog, but it’s something they talk about on Twitter pretty often. 🙂
Jim C. Hines
February 1, 2014 @ 4:24 pm
It’s totally okay. I’m *glad* other people are talking about this, particularly people who can talk from a first-hand perspective instead of it just being me standing on my virtual soapbox. Thank you for making your voice heard.
dave
February 1, 2014 @ 9:54 pm
The original topic was an article by Alex Dally MacFarlane titled “Post Binary Gender in SF”. SF stand for Science Fiction. When I said i was returning to the topic, that’s what i meant. So when i said i was thinking about a tri-gender alien what i meant was I was I was on topic thinking about the mental, physical , cultural process of being an alien in a Science Fiction story.
signing off
Lenora Rose
February 1, 2014 @ 10:49 pm
Tom: I’m not bothered by Jim exercising his quite reasonable right to moderate you out of the conversation. It has nothing to do with tolerance for free speech. He warned people right from the start that he would be moderating the hell out of the comments, and he left ample evidence up of both your base arguments and points of disagreement with him — and why your further comments were deleted.
Lenora Rose
February 1, 2014 @ 10:54 pm
Grit: I do in fact know why *he* thinks it’s an insult. But the more people look at the “insult” and say, “And this is bad how?…” the more likely it is the attempt at an insult will lose power. Repeating the standard line about manliness even in sarcasm reinforces it.
Lenora Rose
February 1, 2014 @ 10:56 pm
Oops. I shoulda known i missed one. Yes, A is asexual.
Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little
February 2, 2014 @ 12:34 am
So you’re saying “message fiction” is like “activist judges”, then? 😀
Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little
February 2, 2014 @ 1:17 am
Right? I remember in a short story workshop several people grilling a colleague on “but why did you make the main character’s girlfriend Korean? Is it plot-relevant?”
No one ever says, “Why did you make that character a white man? Is it plot-relevant?”
All this angsting over how people want a STORY and you’ll drive away readers if you SACRIFICE STORY TO MESSAGE because no one likes to be PREACHED at and the only reason you’d ever challenge the default white-male-cis-hetero norm is to be PREACHY and and and–
You know what? When I write stories with non-white, non-male, non-cis, non-hetero, and/or non-gender-binary characters in ’em, there’s damn well a message in that story.
That message is, “These people exist in my world. I’m not going to pretend that they don’t.”
Message ends.
Giliell
February 2, 2014 @ 3:12 am
It’s always the same, isn’t it?
“I’m colour-blind, I don’t see race!” (but somehow end up with only white people)
“I’m egalitarian, I think men and women are equal” (but somehow I only end up with guys)
“I’m not homophobic!” (but somehow I only end up with straight people)
“I don’t care what somebody identifies as!” (but somehow I only end up with cis people)
“I don’t write message fiction!” (I only reguritate the conservative status quo AD NAUSEUM)
Grit
February 2, 2014 @ 3:59 am
This whole colour-blind thing is bs as well. Meaning, I don’t see black people as black but as white, which is as bad as saying black is bad. Such people don’t get that acknowledging one’s skin colour doesn’t make them racist. It is part of a person just like blond hair or brown eyes.
I think most authors aren’t really aware what kind of characters they write. For them, MacFarlane’s article is a good start to question their own motives and expanding their horizon to beyond straight white male or female.
Giliell
February 2, 2014 @ 4:44 am
Yep, don’t see gender, race, ability, sexual orientation, gender identity but angrily and loudly demand an EXPLENATION for the existence of non straight white cis male* characters like Correira and some commenters here just did.
It’s like asking what justification I have for the gay and trans* people in my life and whether they are just there so I can get a message across.
*With the exception of love interests, of course. Decorative sidekicks are female, of course
AMAZING News 2/2/2014 - Amazing Stories
February 2, 2014 @ 11:01 am
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