August 24, 2012 / Uncategorized

Libriomancer Discussion Post

Libriomancer [Amazon | B&N | Mysterious Galaxy] has been out for two and a half weeks. My thanks to everyone who’s reviewed and talked about the book. My agent describes it as my best launch week ever, and says Libriomancer hit the top ten fantasy hardcovers list for Bookscan, which is pretty darn cool.

For those of you who’ve read it, I wanted to give you a place to talk about the story. What did you like? What didn’t work for you? What are you looking forward to in Codex Born? Any predictions?

There will be spoilers in the comments!

I’m happy to answer questions … some of them, at least 🙂 But I’m also happy to stay out of the way and let folks talk.

One question that came up at several of my booksignings was how libriomancy works with ebooks. I said that was answered in the book, but I think I messed up. It looks like I touched on that in the second book. Short answer: it’s possible to perform libriomancy with ebooks, but Isaac can’t do it.

Let the Wild Booktalk Rumpus begin!

52 Comments

Steven
August 24, 2012 @ 9:58 am

I’m hoping to see more book/printing/publishing history incorporated into the series, as I loved what you did in Bk 1 with Gutenberg.

Here’s hoping there’s more of de Leon, who I grew to like more and more as the book progressed. If he souped-up a sports car in the 20th century, he probably had other previous vehicles. I’m suddenly imagining Isaac stealing a wooden carriage (from a museum) that de Leon built to be the first truly horseless carriage long before Henry Ford came along.

Perhaps some revelations on certain figures backed secretly by the Libriomancers to write and publish works that would help them in their goals?

Lastly, while the illustrations might mitigate/mute the power of the imagination that libriomancers use as fuel, wouldn’t the sheer amount of love/attraction from children be enough to make some very potent (or at least loosely-defined) magics findable in children’s literature?

Great book, Jim, and a lot of fun ruminating on potential other directions in the future.

Steven
Sean Kelley
August 24, 2012 @ 10:04 am

I really loved how you just plunged us (the readers) straight into the action in the first chapter. From there the book never really let up. It felt like every other chapter was an action sequence, and I never really wanted to put the book down.

One of my favorite chapters was the fight between Isaac and Deb. It was neat to see the two libriomancers go at it using their respective favorite genres as weapons. I can’t wait to see more libriomancers. Like, is there a horror libriomancer out there? A romance libriomancer? A western libriomancer?

Overall, the book was so much fun to read, and really felt like a love song to people who loved to read. Thank you, sir.
Jeff Dougan
August 24, 2012 @ 10:04 am

OK, here’s my question that you redacted the first time around:

At the end of the book, when Gutenberg left Lena alone with the Isaac-bot, did he know/strongly suspect what was going to happen?
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 10:06 am

He knew what she was going to try to do. He didn’t know if she’d be able to do it or not.
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 10:16 am

Thanks! And crap, now I totally want to have Isaac stealing something out of the Henry Ford Museum!

There will most definitely be some additional publishing history in book two 🙂
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 10:17 am

Thanks, Sean! There will be more libriomancers. I’m currently toying with an idea for one who uses poetry…
Steven
August 24, 2012 @ 10:19 am

Heck, send him on down here to Grand Rapids so he can steal something out of some manuscripts in the Gerald R. Ford museum! (Hm, libriomancers working for Hoover’s FBI hiding secrets within secrets deep inside memos or something….. :D).

Then again, I’d much rather see Isaac visit the Huntington Library out in California–so many beautiful manuscripts and books to draw on….
Diane S
August 24, 2012 @ 10:56 am

First off, I have to say thank you for writing a book that managed to make the mundane stresses of my every day life (packing to move into my apartment! Buying textbooks for classes! Trying to juggle random commitments and promises for the summer that aren’t done! Ugh!) melt away for a few hours and remind me just how much I love reading and why. I’ve already taken out my exasperation with my mother for finding a book that was JUST released to get us both hooked on (you mean we have to WAIT for the sequel?! She is appropriately contrite, and we are now both anxiously awaiting future novels), and I plan to channel my time waiting into picking up your other books to read.

Much love for the Doctor Who and Firefly nods, by the way. Same for the babblefish. Made this geek grin. Oh, what I wouldn’t give for a long brown coat and some psychic paper myself!

As someone still pretty fresh out of high school and in the midst of many long history courses in college, I loved the spin your books give to the historical – I always kind of liked Gutenberg because hey, the guy who made it possible to have books, what’s not to like? Then this came along, and now I can’t help but thinking all those classes would have been MUCH more fun had I had this perspective on him back then! Fictional or not, I love it.

Of course, the theatre major in me immediately started wondering about the vast world of plays and how those might factor into libriomancy… For example, Shakespeare and A Midsummer Night’s Dream. I’d imagine that some serious shenanigans could occur with the flower Oberon sends Puck to fetch. But I got curious wondering if that would actually be possible, given that plays rarely give the same amount of detail to a given item that you can get in a book. Would libriomancy still be possible in that case? I don’t think it’s too far fetched to say that the required level of cultural awareness is there (for classic plays at least, though possibly not modern), but that gave me pause.

And a silly question that I’ve personally been toying with… what one “mundane” item (as opposed to, say, a weapon) do you think you would like to pull from a book, if given a chance? I’m kind of partial to wanting a Remembrall from Harry Potter for my especially forgetful days!

And last but not least… thank you again. It’s always such a joy to find a book that reminds me just how much I love reading and why, and this does that in both story and form.
sistercoyote
August 24, 2012 @ 11:18 am

As I mentioned earlier, I was trying to read the book a chapter at a time so that I could savor it. That lasted until this weekend, when I hit Chapter six and just kept going from there.

I liked a lot of things; You opened with a bang and never let up much.

Also: The Road to Oz! I knew exactly what Isaac was going to pull out — The Shaggy Man’s Love Magnet. (and I had a fair giggle over the fact Isaac was using it to walk “safely” into the den of vampires, given what very nearly happened to The Shaggy Man et al. despite the Magnet.)

I have already recommended it to several people, and I’m trying to convince myself to limber up my fingers and write a proper review.

Excellent work.
sistercoyote
August 24, 2012 @ 11:20 am

Oh, and — I wouldn’t want The One Ring, though I can certainly understand why that would be locked. I wanted Sam’s Phial.
sistercoyote
August 24, 2012 @ 11:21 am

Hm. Poetry would be interesting, though; yes, good poetry is grounded in solid imagery, but what that imagery means can vary depending on the reader. And so I would think it would be harder to get a coherent “power” item.

Harder. Not impossible.

What would a libriomancer be able to do with a coffee spoon from J. Alfred Prufrock, I wonder.
Leslie
August 24, 2012 @ 11:56 am

This book made my little geeky heart so happy! I laughed pretty much all the way through, except for the parts where I cried. I think one of my favorite parts was when Isaac was thinking about when he first discovered libriomancy – it made me think of when I was in junior high, reading the Pern books until they fell apart. It was a pretty difficult time in my life and those books were my escape. I just know if libriomancy was real, that would have been when I found it. Not sure what I would have picked to pull out – Menolly’s pipes maybe, or a fire-lizard egg (that should fit through a hardback copy, right?)

I’m definitely looking forward to Codex Born, and like some of the other commenters am anxious to see more libriomancers using other genres and how that works. As a fellow theatre person, I’m interested in the answer to Diane’s question about how plays would work.

Also, I finally got to catalog it for my library yesterday! My coworkers all think I’m crazy now, because I begged to be the one to catalog it when it came in. 🙂
Patricia
August 24, 2012 @ 12:52 pm

I don’t have a question about the book since I haven’t read it yet, but I wanted to say that I just got a notice that my local library bought a copy of Libriomancer based on my request and now I can go place a hold on it. Yay! But it turns out someone else placed a hold on it before I got there. A longer wait–boo! But hold on, a closer look at the library catalog reveals they actually bought three copies, not just the one I requested. Awesome! So my one little email has resulted in multiple copies in circulation in my library system, and there is already significant demand for them. I’m feeling very proud of myself right now.
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 1:20 pm

I’m proud of you too 🙂 And thank you!
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 1:30 pm

Thanks, Diane!

The theatre question is an interesting one. My sense is that it could work, but it might be a bit harder than using a more “descriptive” book, for the reasons you mention. More difficult, but definitely not impossible!

Given the health issues in my family, I’d probably pull out some sort of healing magic to start with 🙂
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 1:31 pm

Yes! I was reading Road to Oz to my son while I worked on Libriomancer, and as soon as we got to the Shaggy Man’s magic magnet, I knew I wanted to use it 🙂

And thank you!
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 1:32 pm

On a purely selfish note, it makes me so incredibly happy when people talk about connecting to Isaac and his experiences like this. I really wanted to capture that love of books and that sense of discovery, of new worlds and possibilities and so on.
Corine
August 24, 2012 @ 1:39 pm

I am a voracious reader, and finding a good book to really settle into (and get lost in) is becoming more and more difficult. What a joy it was to stumble upon and fall into Libriomancer. What a shock to discover, when I finished the book, that while it is book 1 in a series, it was *just* published, which means a long wait for more. It will be worth waiting for, and I look forward to reading more about Isaac and friends, and about the Porters, and other ways that “magic” manifests in their world. Thank you!
Jo
August 24, 2012 @ 1:46 pm

LOVED loved loved this book. 🙂 I don’t think I have anything specific I’d like to see in the next book — if it’s consistently as wonderful as this first book, I’l be happy. Although ….. would be interesting to maybe visit some historic libraries (I can just imagine all the interesting things the Vatican library could turn up …. if one were able to sneak in). And more Lena, please! And Smudge!
sistercoyote
August 24, 2012 @ 3:24 pm

I would think a fire-lizard egg would fit through a paperback, too, and I’m with you (the Pern books probably would have been locked so we didn’t end up buried under an avalanche of fire-lizards!)

Brrr, and now I’m trying to figure out how Thread would work…
sistercoyote
August 24, 2012 @ 3:29 pm

🙂 I have very fond memories (and battered copies) of the Oz books, because my father read them to me when I was little.

I do have a question, though: Could a sufficiently adept libriomancer use fanfiction off the ‘net (FF.net, LJ, or AO3)?
Pam Adams
August 24, 2012 @ 3:30 pm

I’m about halfway through and loving every minute!
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 3:33 pm

Short answer: in theory, it’s not impossible, but it would be extremely difficult, for reasons which will possibly be explained in future books.
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 3:34 pm

Historical libraries could be a lot of fun. And FWIW, book two will be a bit more Lena-focused 🙂
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 3:37 pm

Thanks so much, Corine!
Leslie
August 24, 2012 @ 4:22 pm

Ooh- I wasn’t even thinking of Thread, but that would certainly be a danger if those were the books one was reading when one discovered libriomancy. That could be even worse than accidentally getting bitten by a vampire, I think.
Jim C. Hines
August 24, 2012 @ 4:29 pm

The short story where I started playing with libriomancy includes a mention of the protag having to deal with thread that got loose from McCaffrey…
Corine
August 24, 2012 @ 6:57 pm

You asked about what things we liked, or didn’t like, what worked, and what didn’t….
I loved the different species of vampires that have arisen due to the differ urban fantasy series in recent years, and how difficult vampire hunting became as a result. I’m still chucking over vampires known informally as “sparklers”. Smudge is a lot of fun, which, I’m sure is why Isaac pulled him out of the goblin books. 😉

I’m looking forward to learning more about the history and structure of the DZP.

Could you use Libriomancy with a cookbook? Would you be able to pull ingredients out? Or even better, finished dishes! (Can you tell it is nearing dinner time, and I’m thinking about what to fix?)

How common is libriomancy? I got the impression it is pretty rare.
Satsuoni
August 25, 2012 @ 12:05 pm

Thank you for the book! Just finished reading it yesterday.
I couple of stupid questions:
What about manga/comics? Could you drag a portal card (a card that creates a portal in the body of the user through which a sentient creature comes out and eats enemy or user) from a manga volume and wreak havoc? Would such creature still be sentient? The card is just an access point, after all… Sorry for the question.
Also, for some reason, I keep thinking of Smudge as an (possibly evil, but probably not) mastermind/symbiont that controls the host as much as the host controls him… (same as in the Jig books). Is there any ground in that line of thinking, or am I just crazy?
Jim C. Hines
August 27, 2012 @ 8:12 am

It’s relatively rare, but more common than other types of magic. As for the cookbook, that’s an interesting question, but it would probably work, assuming the cookbook was popular enough!
Jim C. Hines
August 27, 2012 @ 8:14 am

Comics and visual art don’t tend to work as well. With written text, the brain does more to actively imagine and create the images in the mind, and that’s a vital part of what makes libriomancy work. I won’t say it’s impossible, but it would be extremely difficult to use comics, manga, and such with this kind of magic.

As for Smudge, that’s not really how I was writing him, but I like the imagination there 🙂
Satsuoni
August 29, 2012 @ 3:05 am

Thank you for you reply!
A pity about comics, although they are often tied in to books. How does it work in that case? Does comic define the form and book the essence(like lightsaber)?
Also, do items that summon beings work or not?
As for the Smudge, I have just noticed that he acts as at least semi-sentient being, and the owner often disregards his own safety to ensure survival of the spider, resulting in the above conclusion. (plus there are some similar character traits between Isaac and Jig 🙂 )
Waiting for the next book!
Jim C. Hines
August 29, 2012 @ 10:13 am

Tie-in novels would work pretty much the same as any other book.

What do you mean by items that summon beings?
Satsuoni
August 29, 2012 @ 10:54 am

Just that, the items that don’t contain the being itself, but instead open a portal to the plane where the being actually “exists”, and help to materialize it in the physical world for a period of time, usually by linking it to the summoner. Would it still work? How much energy would be necessary to get the item out of the book?
Illustration of the summoning in progress (warning -not exactly pretty… but similar to how the libriomancer operates, now that I think about it): http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Chaosic-Rune/1?id=20816#27
Daryl Maxwell
August 31, 2012 @ 2:50 pm

What is this short story and is it available??

Thank you so much for this book!! I haven’t had so much fun reading something (and recognizing the references to other books) in quite a while!!

When do you anticipate the next book being available??
Daryl
Steven
August 31, 2012 @ 9:00 pm

I do believe the short story “Mightier than the Sword” is in this anthology (which also has one of my stories “Being Played”), the link here is for the Kindle version.

http://www.amazon.com/Gamer-Fantastic-ebook/dp/B002AU7MTA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1346461077&sr=8-2&keywords=gamer+fantastic
Reighben Labilles
September 3, 2012 @ 10:13 pm

“Comics and visual art don’t tend to work as well. With written text, the brain does more to actively imagine and create the images in the mind, and that’s a vital part of what makes libriomancy work. I won’t say it’s impossible, but it would be extremely difficult to use comics, manga, and such with this kind of magic.”

-How about Manga that have had decades of following, had multiple iterations in Anime and Movies, and literally millions of fans all over the world, like: the Dragon Ball Series? I can imagine a hyper-imaginative otaku with just-activated libriomancy pull out the dragon balls and activate the scene where the Great Shenron was summoned. *Oh my God, and the wish? I want Super Saiyan 4 Goku Physique, Powers, and the intelligence to use them properly!*

Or relatively new Manga with the same amount of fans and readers? With One Piece, they can pull-out whatever Devil Fruit they want to give them the Super power they need. With Fullmetal Alchemist, they can get the full form of the Sorcerer’s Stone which can literally transmute anything.

The graphics may, in a way, lessen the amount of mental energy needed to visualize the characters and elements in a Manga. But the sheer amount of love, longing, and passion otaku have for Manga, especially the super popular ones, should be sufficient fuel for libriomancer-type magic.

Oh, and just think of the Vertigo Graphic Novels. How many loved and treasured those graphic novels on Swamp Thing, The Books of Magic, Sandman, The Trenchcoat Brigade, Lucifer! Oh God, the thought of a comic-book loving libriomancer pulling THE BOOKS OF MAGIC (source of magic in all of earth)and using it to make him/herself a full sorcerer. Or someone pulling the Book of Destiny, the Helmet of the Dreamer, or the Orb God holds that represents all of the universe.

The possibilities are endless! If I were a libriomancer, I would do just that.

Oh yeah. I have to admire how you created the Libriomancer Magick System. The whole madness, sickness, and the possibility of dying if you use too much magic gives the magick in your world a sense of balance. You definitely can reach God mode easy with the right books, but you’ll definitely either die or become insane.
Jim C. Hines
September 4, 2012 @ 6:35 pm

Yes, thank you!

I also included that story in Goblin Tales.
Ben
September 6, 2012 @ 5:04 pm

Just started the book and am loving the geek-out factor. I’ve got a kind of a silly dialect question: When Isaac (or could have been another character) says “Yah”–is that just a different spelling of “yeah” as in “yeah, right” or is this a Michigan/UP accent/dialect thing pronounced more like the German “Ja”?
I know it is ridiculous, but these are the kind of things that keep me up at night…
Jim C. Hines
September 6, 2012 @ 5:41 pm

It’s a Yooperism, fairly close to the German 🙂
sistercoyote
September 6, 2012 @ 6:45 pm

Ooooh, goody. I’m stockpiling reading for week after next, when I’ll be recovering (nothing serious, nobody worry) and Goblin Tales is in that pile.

Well. Kindle list. Can it be properly said to be in a pile if it’s on my Kindle?
Corine
September 6, 2012 @ 6:56 pm

Of course it is in your pile, even if it is an electronic pile. It is just much neater and less likely to sill!
Corine
September 6, 2012 @ 6:57 pm

Make that “spill.”.
Nikki
September 11, 2012 @ 1:56 am

I adored Libriomancer. One of the best I’ve read in awhile!

I was especially pleased with Lena Greenwood – both as a character and how she was handled. First, she’s badass – plain and simple. But also energetic and sweet and completely charming; though Isaac may be a somewhat biased narrator, it’s still easy to see how she could catch his eye. I love how her being a female who happens to fight isn’t treated as special – it just is. (But hey, I knew you’d be good for that thanks to the Princess series.) And – let’s be honest. ‘Happiness In Slavery’ type plots as a general rule piss me right the hell off – But Lena’s situation was handled with such grace – the why of it, and Isaac and Shah’s reactions to it, and her efforts to be her own person as best she could in the final scenes – made it work for me, and I have to give giant kudos for that.

On top of that, the mingling of characters and mythologies and historical figures is the kind of thing that’s just all in my Happy Place, and the battle between Isaac and the bamboozled automatons was a hell of a thrill, from the wonder of the moon landing to the cleverness of how he defeated them. Man oh man.

Also Smudge is adorable, Granach awesome and intimidating (I love spiders and vampires as a rule!) and even the characters I saw less off, like DeGeorge and Pallas, left me wanting more.

You hit all the right spots with this one – a day after I finish it I’m still in the afterglow!
M.A.
September 14, 2012 @ 12:04 am

Ok, late to the party, but I just finished the book, like, 10 minutes ago. Good read! One question — why doesn’t Lena just masturbate? If she becomes her own lover, wouldn’t she gain control over her self?

Also, a family of 4 would not be able to consume a 9-point buck in a month. Dude, you’re talking about hundreds of pounds of meat here. My father went hunting every fall and I grew up on venison and elk meat — the resulting amount of burger alone is astonishing.

I’d like to see some interaction between Gutenberg and Ponce de Leon — the arguments could be delightful! They seem to have quite a history.

Smudge is brilliant, looks like lots of fun to write. But how can you tell if a spider is glaring at you? I love that he has a sweet tooth. And he cooks his food! I’d think he’d accidentally set Isaac’s hair on fire more often.

Vampires running a daycare center as a front cracks me up, but yeah, that would work…

Looking forward to the next installment.
Jim C. Hines
September 14, 2012 @ 8:54 pm

Thanks, Nikki! I really appreciate that. I spent a lot of time on Lena’s character and story, and I know not everyone was happy with where it went at the end, but I’m very glad she worked for you.

DeGeorge is actually based on a friend of mine from grad school, who is absolutely thrilled at the idea of being a badass librarian vampire-type character in the book 🙂
Nikki
September 15, 2012 @ 12:31 am

It’s my impression that masturbation could not satisfy Lena, at least for long.

See, the type of male that buys into the ‘women want to be subjugated’ ideal that Lena’s home book portrays usually take a dim view of female masturbation. Often, such males view it as unnatural; those that don’t have been heard to claim it’s mere preparation for ‘real’ sexuality.

Thus, Lena may therefore be hardwired to be unable to find satisfaction that way due to being ‘programmed’ from such a mindset. Her relationship with Shah gets a pass because to such males lesbians exist as part of the male gratification system – masturbation, unless for HIS entertainment, does not, so flying solo won’t fly.

In other news, I suspect I have too much free time. Good question, though!
M.A.
September 15, 2012 @ 12:47 am

That is true, but those same guys who read those books wouldn’t want to share a woman with another lover, either, unless they could watch the lesbian sex or get a threesome out of it. So she’s already moving past the stereotype she was created in, which is basically to fixate on one man.

The thing that did occur to me, after I posted that comment, is that she does value companionship: that relationship stuff that self-sex doesn’t give you. She feels incomplete alone; I get the feeling she gets nearly panicked without a lover.

I’m curious to see what she looks like after awhile, since she changes physically to match the desires of her partner. What will she become with Isaac, while still responding to her doctor?

Yup, too much free time here too…
Nikki
September 15, 2012 @ 9:25 am

That might be true were Shah male, but with her a woman there’s still the possibility of male gratification – which leaves a little loophole to wiggle through. Still – Lena is a unique being, a creature who should not have a full, sound mind (though not gonna lie, the crazy Smurfs are sort of hilarious) due to being created through libriomancy – who knows how far she might pull away, given time and motivation?

I did think about the companionship aspect too, though there’s a certain wondering about the implications of it – it likely started in the book as a drive to serve, but again, unique being who may be pulling away.

I’m pretty curious about her looks too – on the one hand there’s the fact that Isaac seems to like her fine as is. On the other hand we have the implication that she changes to match – becoming always agreeable, for instance, which was why her argument with Shah was a shock. So I guess it depends on whether the ‘change to match’ or ‘accomodate desires’ is stronger… and, with two lovers, can she now choose to a degree, just as she could choose to disagree with Shah?

Should be awesome to see how she develops!
Jim C. Hines
September 15, 2012 @ 11:21 am

“The thing that did occur to me, after I posted that comment, is that she does value companionship: that relationship stuff that self-sex doesn’t give you. She feels incomplete alone.”

Bingo. Her needs go beyond the physical, so while she certainly does tend to her own needs from time to time, that’s not enough to sustain her identity.

All I’ll say beyond that is that I’m planning to explore Lena’s character a lot more in the next book 🙂
M.A.
September 15, 2012 @ 7:19 pm

Any idea when that’ll be out? Just curious; not like I haven’t got anything else to read here (looking around at 5 overstuffed bookcases…not to mention the 3 books I’m currently in the middle of. I SO like being retired!)
Jim C. Hines
September 15, 2012 @ 7:39 pm

I’ve seen a tentative release date online that has CODEX BORN scheduled for August 6, 2013. I’m not 100% sure on that, though.