Preventing Rape
Today’s rant began with a quote I saw on linked from Facebook.
If you’re promoting changes to women’s behavior to “prevent” rape, you’re really saying “make sure he rapes the other girl.” -@itsmotherswork
Personally, I think that’s a pretty powerful message. And then I read the comments…
The very second commenter responded:
If you’re promoting changes to children’s behavior to “prevent” traffic accidents, you’re really saying “make sure the other kid is hit by a car.”
The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. It’s a piss-poor analogy that only holds up if you assume the driver is deliberately looking for kids to hit.
RAPE IS NOT AN ACCIDENT.
It’s not something that just happens. Do I want my daughter to have the knowledge and tools to try to protect herself? Hell, yes. But that doesn’t guarantee her safety, nor does it solve the larger problem.
A little further on, we got the argument that trying to teach people not to rape is a waste of time. After all, nobody ever read a sign that said “Rape is Bad!” and thought, Huh, I was all set to rape someone tonight, but now I won’t. Thank you, helpful sign!
If only we had information showing that education can be effective in reducing sexual assault and rape-enabling behaviors/attitudes, not to mention research on how debunking rape myths can increase bystander intervention, or that “men who have peer support for behaving in an emotionally violent manner toward women and for being physically and sexually violent toward women are 10 times more likely to commit sexual aggression toward women.”
Then there’s the call for a “balanced” approach, the guy (and it’s almost always a guy) who wants to be reasonable and accepts that we can try to work with men, but still has to derail the discussion to make sure everyone understands how important it is to educate women about the steps they should take to protect themselves.
Balance? When you can’t find a single article or discussion about rape that doesn’t include comments on what she should have done to avoid it, or analyzing all of her “bad choices” that led to her being raped, or links to helpful tips of everything women must do to remain vigilant against rape?
We indoctrinate women at every step with rules they must follow if they hope to avoid being raped. But it’s like you see women as such foolish, helpless creatures that if we aren’t constantly telling them what to do and what not to do–if we devote even a fraction of that time and energy to educating men about rape and prevention–then they’ll all immediately start running naked through the streets shouting, “Here I am, world! Come and rape me!!!”
(Which the men will of course do, based on the other underlying assumption here that all those guys are just natural-born rapists, so there’s no point in trying to change anything.)
Rape prevention efforts have targeted women for ages. Yet sexual assault continues to be incredibly common. Weird, huh? It’s almost like putting the responsibility on women while failing to prosecute most rape cases, blaming women when men choose to rape them, buying into myths and excuses that minimize male aggression, and basically ignoring the vast majority of the people committing the crime isn’t an effective strategy for reducing rape.
Murphy Jacobs
March 1, 2013 @ 2:52 pm
I’ve long thought that placing the responsibility for rape on women was actually incredibly insulting to men. It assumes that 1) men are not in control of themselves 2) men are subject to behavioral control by women 3) men are not intelligent enough to determine when an action is wrong and will have terrible consequences. So it’s a kind of idiotic double bind — women are too stupid and helpless not to provoke men to rape them, and men are too stupid and helpless to not rape women.
And it gets even worse when we talk about other kinds of sexual assault. The stupid gets so high that mass destruction of the human race begins to look like a viable option.
So, I agree that the education of men about rape, about what constitutes rape, about not viewing other people as non-entities or objects for their sexual/emotional gratification, enforcing the ideas that rape is less about sex and more about power and anger and victimization, and working on how we humans promote the ideas in our cultures that we do about men and women that lead to or away from rape is the only real solution.
At least, until we come up with an instant action chemical emasculation dart gun that can be worn as a lovely bracelet.
Jim C. Hines
March 1, 2013 @ 2:59 pm
“…it’s a kind of idiotic double bind — women are too stupid and helpless not to provoke men to rape them, and men are too stupid and helpless to not rape women.”
That sums up a lot of the underlying assumptions quite well, actually.
Rune
March 1, 2013 @ 3:01 pm
Sir, I would like to give you a big, sloppy, consensual kiss on the cheek for this. Thank you. Just thank you.
EJC
March 1, 2013 @ 3:27 pm
There are public health and non-governmental campaigns aimed at men outside the US. I am a non-traditional public health student. One of my proessors started a conversation about this topic on Linked In two years ago. It was a very livly discussion and included commenters from around the world.
I hope this link works:
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Lets-start-conversation-about-mens-120372.S.57138485?trk=group_search_item_list-0-b-ttl&goback=%2Enpv_16733636_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_en*4US_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1%2Egna_120372
If the link doesn’t work, try going to linkedin.com and searching groups for “Let’s start a conversation about men’s roles in protecting women and children from domestic violence. Many socalled “women’s issues” are actually everyone’s issues, or should be.”
JanArrah
March 1, 2013 @ 3:53 pm
You know.. I get insulted by the idea that rape only happens to women. It doesn’t. I’ve had male friends that were raped as well. In fact, there was a recent kickstarter started by a man to create glassware, straws, and other items that would change color when a date rape drug is introduced to the drink (http://drinksavvyinc.com/). The young man stated openly that he was hit with one of these date rape drugs himself and taken advantage of. It happens to men too. It is not just a woman’s issue. (and as a side note, I think Drink Savvy is an awesome idea and hope it takes off in bars and clubs across the country)
Second of all, when we have members of various political parties stating that women shouldn’t be allowed to protect themselves with guns, they should instead rely on rape whistles or vomiting on their attack, it’s insulting (here: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/022213-645486-colorado-democrat-salazar-advocates-rape-whistle.htm or http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/26/living/colorado-university-rape-prevention-tips/index.html).
Jim C. Hines
March 1, 2013 @ 3:58 pm
The majority of rapes are committed by men against women. I don’t think anyone said that rape *only* happens to women.
Krista D. Ball
March 1, 2013 @ 4:00 pm
“Don’t be that guy” —> a poster program in bar bathrooms in Edmonton, Canada.
http://www.theviolencestopshere.ca/dbtg.php
When these first came out, a lot of people were offended. Oh noes! A lot of guys were offended that they were being targeted. I saw comments like, “I don’t rape women. If she’s drunk and coming on to me when I get her home, it’s not my fault she couldn’t handle her liquor.”
Yeah, dude. That poster is for you.
Tal
March 1, 2013 @ 4:09 pm
seconded! i love this post so much.
(relatedly, Mr Hines, i was reading an article earlier – but i forget where *sadface* – which referenced a survey. the survey noted that men self-report rape as long as the r-word isnt used and. i’m really sorry i cant remember where i read it)
Jim C. Hines
March 1, 2013 @ 4:24 pm
I know I’ve come across several articles and studies that make the same point, and I was trying to find one of them to add to the post, but my Google-fu completely failed me.
Tal
March 1, 2013 @ 4:26 pm
aha! i was reading http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/11/12/rapists-who-dont-think-theyre-rapists/
KatG
March 1, 2013 @ 4:46 pm
You are using a derailing argument, first off — we can’t talk about how women are treated by the society in regards to rape unless we talk about men being raped first, which isn’t the case and also is a bit of a power play. And second, you’re bringing up a very important point as to male understanding in the society. Many men who are raped are, like women, unsure that it really was rape and ashamed, thinking it’s their fault. It’s an even bigger stigma admitting to being raped as a man because it’s supposed to be a “woman” thing. If we educated men on both being a rapist and a victim, it’s possible rape might be taken more seriously, because rape is seen as a women’s problem that women have to deal with and men do not, and a problem that women supposedly always blow out of proportion. There are many, many perfectly nice guys who love their wives and girlfriends who don’t think date rape exists and who are mistakenly quite sure how a woman dresses has something to do with whether she is targeted or not for rape. Some of them are cops. Getting them to believe that a man has been raped is even harder. So again, it speaks to educating men, rather than assuming educating women does the trick or indeed has much effect at all.
Joe Selby
March 1, 2013 @ 6:21 pm
“And then I read the comments”
Well there was your first mistake.
Jim C. Hines
March 1, 2013 @ 6:27 pm
Yeah, I know. What can I say, I’m a slow learner.
reader
March 2, 2013 @ 5:45 pm
” If we educated men on both being a rapist and a victim, it’s possible rape might be taken more seriously, because rape is seen as a women’s problem that women have to deal with and men do not, and a problem that women supposedly always blow out of proportion. There are many, many perfectly nice guys who love their wives and girlfriends who don’t think date rape exists and who are mistakenly quite sure how a woman dresses has something to do with whether she is targeted or not for rape. Some of them are cops. Getting them to believe that a man has been raped is even harder. So again, it speaks to educating men, rather than assuming educating women does the trick or indeed has much effect at all.”
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER.
IT
March 2, 2013 @ 7:43 pm
“There are many, many perfectly nice guys who love their wives and girlfriends who don’t think date rape exists and who are mistakenly quite sure how a woman dresses has something to do with whether she is targeted or not for rape. Some of them are cops.”
You mean, the reason this exists: http://www.slutwalktoronto.com/
HelenS
March 2, 2013 @ 9:33 pm
It’s a lot more effective to say “AND men get raped too” than to say “BUT men get raped too.”
KatG
March 3, 2013 @ 12:27 am
Yes, IT, very much so. But also thinking about all these sexual harassment and assault incidents at conventions and the conversations I’ve had over those and comments we’ve all seen from perfectly well intentioned people who nonetheless think there is a vast epidemic of young girls and college students who have a drunken one-nighter and then in embarrassment and regret call out rape. Which is a huge misrepresentation of how many women actually dare to make a rape accusation and completely illogical as if you really want to be embarrassed — and threatened and slurred, etc. — claiming rape is an excellent way to do it. Which every girl again knows by the age of 16. That’s why normal everyday guys think it’s perfectly okay to rape a woman who is drunk or who was willing to go with them to a private place to talk, and women rarely seek legal action when it happens to them. Because they’ve been taught crap about what rights women have and what rape is about and a lot of myths about women asking for it. Old ladies get raped. Middle-aged wives and mothers get raped. They get raped in their homes, during the day and with no substances involved, often by men they know. And likewise for male victims. So even if you had that super cool Rufie detecting wine glass in bars, it’s not necessarily going to help much. It’s again placing the burden on the victim to protect himself or herself. So again, I think educating guys — if they’ll actually accept the statistics — certainly should be a top priority in prevention. Because only a small percentage of rapes are done by stranger predators and over drugs and alcohol. It’s your neighbor or your boyfriend who is actually the bigger threat statistically.
Jess
March 3, 2013 @ 10:20 am
I cringe every time I see people insist that the solution lies with telling women to prevent rape. I feel like living proof that rape can’t be prevented, no matter what steps you try to take. I’ve been raped at a party, having my drink spiked, while wearing a short dress and heels and all manner of things people like to place the blame on (when I went to the cops, they had a field day analysing all the things I did wrong!). And I’ve also been raped in my own house, wearing sweatpants and stinky shirts. There was no way I could have prevented the second instance, unless I was He-Man and was able to utterly destroy my attacker (I’m sure some people would still find fault with me not fighting hard enough, or something. Bleh).
Anyway, thanks for this post.
Jim C. Hines
March 3, 2013 @ 10:32 am
Thank you!
pooks
March 3, 2013 @ 11:44 am
Oh, let’s go a step further than that sign. “Just because she’s drinking doesn’t mean she wants sex WITH YOU.”
Why do I think that the majority of guys who think that way, think that way because it’s their best shot of having sex at all?
James Cheatham
March 3, 2013 @ 3:49 pm
Not to belittle the cause, but, you can say similar about just about any crime. “If you lock your doors what you’re really saying is rob someone else’s house.” “Shouldn’t have let people know about that new 52 inch T.V. you bought.” and so on. The only real solution requires changes in society that probably won’t come about. Not stigmatizing the victim for example. We’ve come a long way, but there’s still a that lingering question in the back of many minds, “Did she resist enough? Was she asking for it?” Even the victims ask themselves these questions! No wonder a woman will often not even report it! I don’t think there is an actual solution to prevent it. There will always be a minority that is willing to take that which doesn’t belong to them, be it money, T.V. or even someones dignity. (for lack of a better way to put it.) We can go a long way in how we treat the victims as a society.
Jackie Zaric
March 4, 2013 @ 1:18 am
You know, there’s another area where we play this idiotic “prevention and victim-blame” game. Disasters. You shouldn’t have built a house on the beach, why were you driving so fast, why should my insurance cover morons who live on a fault line, etc.
That, to my mind, says it all. We don’t view rape as a crime. We never have. Crimes are problems: they have to be prevented, and failing that, punished. Disasters, though, aren’t really avoidable or fixable. They just kind of happen. The powerless, the poor suffer, but who cares? Everyone with money will evacuate, call the insurance, live in their second home. It’s the same thing with rape. Can’t be avoided. Can’t be fixed. And who really cares what happens to the weak and the unimportant? Women, the disabled, the elderly, minorities–disasters happen to them BECAUSE they’re poor and useless, so why should the rest of us care? Rape doesn’t really affect the powerful and the important (I’m not denying that wealthy white men can be raped, but it is uncommon.)
That attitude terrifies me. This belief that rape isn’t a crime, it’s an incident, and if you don’t like it you shouldn’t live where it occurs. Unlike Tornado Alley, though, moving won’t fix the problem. There is nowhere I can go where I will not be in danger. There isn’t a single high school in this country where my assault at age 15 could not have happened. Rape is a crime, rapists are criminals, and they will find victims. If not me, someone else. The solution isn’t to remove me, my long hair or short skirt from the equation. It’s to remove THEM.
lkeke35
March 4, 2013 @ 3:52 pm
Jackie Zaric : Amen!
Marilyn
March 4, 2013 @ 8:16 pm
It’s great to see guys standing up against this stuff. You are awesome. The end.
Well, not quite. The lack of logic in all of those types of arguments never ceases to amaze and disgust me. It’s pretty terrible that the woman is generally always blamed first. Especially when it’s because people are so very, very afraid of people being “falsely accused” of rape. Because being falsely accused is so much worse than actually undergoing the physical and mental trauma of rape, don’tcha know.
Sigh.
James Cheatham
March 4, 2013 @ 9:08 pm
Actually, someone being “falsely accused” is worse on multiple levels. Even if the guy (usually a guy anyway) is cleared, there’s always a “doubt”. Guy’s have been known to go to prison when they hadn’t committed a crime, which I think is on par with being raped. His reputation is damaged and there’s no recovery. It also makes it more difficult for the next girl, for the very reasons posted here. It makes it that much easier to question the victim. Finally it makes it so you can’t even trust the system.
Rape is a crime, the problem is, with any crime you don’t generally prevent it other than by giving someone a hard target. You can only “mitigate” the outcome.
Other Bill
March 4, 2013 @ 11:44 pm
FYSA: Guys’ (usually guys) disproportionately weighted concerns about false accusations serve as an enabler to rapists by creating a social stigma or barrier to those struggling with whether or not to report the rape. Especially in the case of date rapists.
As the original entry points out: rape is not an accident. Rapists are not weather patterns, they’re criminals that act with calculation. A rapist says a little prayer of thanks every time some guy, who probably isn’t a rapist, makes an argument that equates accusations of rape with rape.
That isn’t to say that false accusations and false imprisonment aren’t highly destructive events. But, it is to say that in terms of equivalency between the two, the fact that false accusations of rape are statistically improbable when compared to rape matters a great deal.
reader
March 5, 2013 @ 1:27 am
Also, ever noticed how much more concerned some cultures are with false accusations of rape than with false accusations of other jail-worthy crimes?
reader
March 5, 2013 @ 1:33 am
“Disasters, though, aren’t really avoidable or fixable. They just kind of happen. The powerless, the poor suffer, but who cares? Everyone with money will evacuate, call the insurance, live in their second home.”
The more intelligent urban planners and geologists care. I should zone that floodplain as a grassy park instead of any density of residential area, etc.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1108-33.htm
“…At the same time, as luck would have it, most Brazilian cities were installing elaborate flood-control projects. Curitiba had federal money to ‘channelize’ the five rivers flowing through town, putting them in concrete viaducts so that they wouldn’t flood the city with every heavy summer rain and endanger the buildings starting to spring up in the floodplain.
“‘The bankers wanted all the rivers enclosed,’ says Alves; instead, city hall took the same loan and spent it – on land. At a number of sites throughout the city, engineers built small dams and backed up the rivers into lakes. Each of these became the center of a park; and if the rains were heavy, the lake might rise a foot or two-perhaps the jogging track would get a little soggy or the duck in the big new zoo would find itself swimming a few feet higher than usual. ‘Every river has a right to overflow,’ insists parks chief Nicolau Klupel…”
Amanda
March 6, 2013 @ 9:10 pm
Nope. Old Long Debunked Derails are Old Long Debunked Derails. Not acceptable, and yes you DID belittle the cause by bringing up such terrible analogies.
(TW) Rape is an abuse of power, and torture. It is a personal humiliation. The cops do not come to your house when you’ve been burgled and criticize your security measures and refuse to investigate if they don’t think your security measures came up to their personal standards. A burglary is rarely done to hurt or humiliate you, it is done for financial reasons. A rape is a personal offense every single time – they are taking a piece of a person.
“I don’t think there is an actual solution to prevent it.” Then you’re not trying hard enough. What power status quo do you have to uphold by not trying?
Easy solutions? Hear a rape joke from a friend – tell them it’s not cool. Hear a conversation about victim blaming – tell the people they are wrong and they should focus on the perp. See a woman made uncomfortable by someone/trying to get away – intervene, call the cops/security. And most of all? When a woman tells you she’s been raped – BELIEVE HER.
Kate Lowell
March 7, 2013 @ 5:01 pm
Thank you, reader, for pointing that out. We aren’t nearly as concerned about sending someone to jail for a robbery they didn’t commit, or a murder, or bank fraud. But heaven forbid we should accuse someone falsely of not being able to keep their willy in their pants until told emphatically, “Get that thing out and get over here!”
Perrin Rynning
March 9, 2013 @ 9:11 pm
As I understand it, different rapists offer different justifications for their actions. More than a few claim that “if I don’t get any for a week or so, I get mean” or similar. President Kennedy, whose exploits left Clinton in the dust, apparently complained of migraines when Jackie was out of town, so there may be some truth to the notion.
Here’s a thought, taken from what may seem like way, way out in left field.
But then again, the author who hosts this forum deals with “magic”, so maybe not…
For everyone following this topic who hasn’t studied certain Eastern meditation practices, one of the secrets that the instructor tends not to talk about until the student has mastered the basics of “stilling the mind” (read: keeping some of the weirdness to themselves when not studying with the instructor) is where this “inner energy” stuff comes from. There are several different types, but the one most germaine to this discussion comes from the genitals. Exactly how much you want to believe about Tantric sexual practices and martial arts is up to you, but there are oral traditions going back thousands of years based on the idea. Which would seem to suggest that there may be something of real substance to it.
This relates to rape, IMHO, by changing the nature of how we look at the men’s side of the issue. Eastern energy medicine starts from the premise that sexual energy can be directed from the genitals to other parts of the body through meditation. The ultimate goal is to get it to flow all the way up the spine and back down the front of the body in a circuit (key point: touching the tongue to the roof of the mouth during meditation is how you “close” that circuit).
Right now, take a moment to consider your reaction to this idea. If you’re laughing or sneering, ask yourself why. Do you believe that sex energy can only be used for one thing? Why is that? Is that what you were taught? Or have you just never thought of anything else to do with it?
It seems axiomatic that “sex is power”. But I have to ask: what *kind* of power is it? Is it really something that cannot be controlled, or is it just that too many males have been conditioned to *believe* that it can’t be controlled?
I’d like to point out that, right now, there are many programs in prisons around the world teaching lifers how to meditate.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jenny-phillips/meditation-in-prision_b_1469180.html
Their success rate has been surprising. The question then becomes: why is it so difficult to raise awareness and “buy-in” for this sort of thing in men, particularly rapists, who aren’t in prison?
Rika
March 10, 2013 @ 6:18 am
I only just discovered this blog from the Hawkeye Initiative so I realize that I’m new to the discussion, but I got a perspective that I haven’t read yet for the direction the comments are headed, so I felt I should share. I happen to be in the military and we have a pretty bad reputation for rape and assault. For good reason. The rape reporting is just as high in a demographic that is roughly 8-19% female depending on the service and career field barring the Special Forces. We also have an even lower conviction rate than the civilian community. One of the major reasons being that a commander can and usually does choose to throw out such cases. This Get-out-of-jail-free-card applies to a lot of things, but disproportionately to these cases I believe. It also comes with a relatively low penalty in most convictions. Rape a person: get discharged (sometimes without a dishonorable discharge), maybe serve a year or two in jail, work a few months hard labor, lose a little rank, or pay a few hundred dollars. Never all of these, but the discharge is pretty common. They aren’t necessarily added to any database as sexual offenders and plenty of them get off scott free. Assuming the study of navy men was even remotely correct, many more of these convictions should happen, and to plenty more service members. On a post of more than 4000 the weekly JAG report released less than ten sexual crime related convictions for that year (for the math challenged of which I am one, 10 out of 4000 = 0.0025%.) I’m only mentioning one post, as it is the only one I’ve been on that posted the weekly conviction reports. The conviction rate may be higher at other posts, but when I know that dozens of reports were made in the few months I worked with the prevention office, this is a sadly low number. The silver lining in my opinion is that recently there has been a shift in the way training to prevent such occurrences happens. It’s called bystander intervention training or BIT as we’re so fond of our acronyms. It’s not yet wide-spread and very new, but instead of pointing fingers or accusing the overwhelmingly male population of all being merciless rapists it points out and addresses the fact that most rapes are done by people the victim knows and is friends or related to. This means shared social groups. It encourages everyone to travel in groups and to watch out for everyone in them. If your buddy has too much, take them home with a friend’s help. Don’t let him or her get singled out and then ignore the trauma later as currently tends to be the case. If your buddy makes inappropriate jokes that are over the line make a point of saying how you don’t approve and won’t tolerate it, because the kind of people that look to exploit, also look for people that will turn a blind eye or will gloss over the problems to work right in front of. Jokes and comments are their easiest way to scope that out. It’s not the victims fault, but it is yours by association if you let them get hurt and you ignore it or allowed it to happen in the first place. The point of the course is to erase the ignorance of how most rapes happen, and how everyone can act to prevent them to other people, and themselves collectively. Making it a group problem works in many social scenarios and this training tries to apply it to this particular crime. I’ll admit the military does a lot of things skewed, but I think they might finally be getting this thing right. Something I’d like to see more of all around. The training and education that go with the Canadian bar poster campaign has similar education for bartenders and bouncers. It would benefit us all if it were more wide spread. Then we could stop having the conversation about how the women ask to get raped, or how men get raped too and get to solving the problem. We are all bystanders and can do something to stop it permanently if we change the group behavior that allows it to happen in the first place (in most cases).
Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little
March 11, 2013 @ 3:09 pm
Easy solutions? Hear a rape joke from a friend – tell them it’s not cool. Hear a conversation about victim blaming – tell the people they are wrong and they should focus on the perp. See a woman made uncomfortable by someone/trying to get away – intervene, call the cops/security. And most of all? When a woman tells you she’s been raped – BELIEVE HER.
Adding to the list: When someone uses “rape” as synonym for “a decisive defeat in a game” or “a funny and slightly embarrassing accident that maybe had a penetrative aspect”, remind them that this demeans what actual rape survivors went through and adds to the social misconception of rape as no big deal.
Real life example! Last week at a bar, a guy showed me a hole in his T-shirt and said, “The door totally raped me on my way out.” I said, “I’d say the door ripped your shirt, actually. Rape is different.” He insisted, “Well, it’s my favorite shirt, so it felt like I got raped.”
“No, dude. Seriously. I have friends who have been raped. What they went through was horrible, and a damn sight worse than a ripped T-shirt.”
At this he finally looked a little chagrined and said, “OK, I can see your point.”
Please, if you’ve got the spoons for it, counter the “rape as metaphor for not-rape” wherever you hear it, and don’t back down.
Jim C. Hines
March 14, 2013 @ 7:53 am
I would love to see this kind of training and education spread, and I very much agree that bystanders have the potential to make a huge difference in reducing rape. But first we need to increase awareness of what rape is and how it happens…
P Smith
March 18, 2013 @ 12:10 pm
The so-called “balanced approach” is also known as the “Yes, but…” argument. It usually involves fatuous and fallacious attempts to equate single instances in the opposite direction as being worse than a thousand or million cases in the direction being discussed (e.g. MRAs blathering about male circumcision in an attempt to derail discussion of FGM, the sexual mutilation of women and girls). It doesn’t matter what the inserted argument is, even if it’s valid one. It’s not part of the discussion at hand and should be left out.
Extraneous “arguments” are brought up usually for one of two reasons: (1) to try and minimize or nullify the actual discussion (to pretend it’s not important or doesn’t exist) or (2) to pretend that the “yes but” example is equal or more important when in fact it’s often just a personal agenda or a whine.
reader
April 8, 2013 @ 9:47 pm
Since some of you mentioned rapists raping men and boys too, I recommend reading http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men