Phineas & Ferb vs. Kim Possible
I wanted to thank everyone for their kind words about Flit, and to those of you who shared your own pet stories. It was very much appreciated.
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I admit it. I was a Kim Possible fanboy, and I’ve become an equally devoted follower of Phineas and Ferb. Both shows have their flaws, but overall, I love ’em.
Kim Possible was about a crime-fighting cheerleader, her goofy sidekick and his pet naked mole rat, and supervillains that ranged from the mad scientist to the monkey kung fu master to Ricardo Montalban.
Phineas & Ferb is about two stepbrothers who build implausibly awesome inventions, everything from space ships to roller coasters to teleportation portals. In the meantime, their pet platypus sneaks out to fight a would-be supervillain determined to rule the tri-state area. Also, there are musical numbers.
- Introducing Team Badass
Both shows are smart, well-written, self-aware, and fun. Both shows treat viewers with respect instead of talking down to kids or adults. I routinely quote Phineas and Ferb and get their songs stuck in my head. At one point Kim Possible had Michael Freaking Dorn guest-star as a superevolved naked mole rat from the future!
After several seasons, both shows did something risky. They changed things.
At the end of a Kim Possible special, Kim starts dating her sidekick/partner Ron. Instead of the tired old “Will they or won’t they?” storyline that drags out for far too long (I’m looking at you, Castle!), the writers simply decided that they would. There was actual smooching.
Phineas and Ferb just released a movie called Across the Second Dimension, wherein our heroes discover their pet platypus Perry’s secret identity as Agent P, crime-fighter for the OWCA (Organization Without a Cool Acronym). Perry had successfully hidden his double-life for the entire show, but now he got to team up with his humans, and it was awesome. Both for seeing how well they worked together, and for random lines like, “Wait a minute, I just realized you could have been changing your own litter pan this whole time! Oh, this is not over!”
Spoiler time!
And then at the end of the Phineas and Ferb movie, the writers hit the reset button. Everyone’s memories are erased except for Perry’s, and everything goes back to the status quo.
Whereas Kim Possible released another season in which Kim and Ron continued to date, stumbling at times, but working through the changes and stories that came with their new relationship. (I loved watching the supervillains stop in mid-battle to say things like, “Wait, you and him? Really? Nah, I just don’t see it.”)
The writers of Kim Possible took a risk, moving beyond the established formula to try something new. It could have failed, but that’s what makes it a risk. And to me, that’s the mark of a good writer.
So often we stick with what’s safe, with what we know worked before. I loved Feist’s Riftwar saga, but as I read his next books, I kept thinking, “Haven’t I read this already?” I didn’t love them the way I had the earlier books.
Safe sells. Formula sells. Just flip on the TV and watch almost any half-hour sitcom. It’s comfortable. But I believe great writing requires risks, a willingness to continue to try new things, whether you’re writing a novel or a cartoon script. And that’s why I think Kim Possible wins this particular show-down.
D. Moonfire
September 29, 2011 @ 10:25 am
KP was a wonderful show for things changing. And it was something I really missed in a lot of other Disney and other children series. It wasn’t just the dating thing, which was awesome, but also Ron’s fear of monkeys, using people KP helped in prior episodes to get rides everywhere, and even the progression of Dr. D into what he became at the end (you know, minus the flower).
Most of the other shows I watch for that group, everything is episodic and non-changing. Simpsons made a point of it (“From now on, this man is to be known as Skinnard….” and the whole dead cat bit), but other shows pretty much are written to be standalone, and what happened in the first episode is pretty much what is going to happen in the later.
I think that is one reason KP survived five years.
(Okay, I’m a KP fan too. Naked Mole Rap is still #1 on my playlist.)
Jim C. Hines
September 29, 2011 @ 10:34 am
KP had continuity, which was awfully nice. And you’re right, they did it throughout the show’s run. They also managed to keep each episode self-contained. I’ve gotten frustrated with stories that go too far in that direction, telling a long, changing story, but making it harder to follow or enjoy any particular chapter/episode. (This is one of the reasons I gave up on Lost.)
Yeah, the flower was weird. But I loved where he and Shego ended up at the end.
Kev
September 29, 2011 @ 11:02 am
I have a theory that Kim’s mom and Linda Flyn-Fletcher are related, possibly sisters. And I think Disney should do a crossover episode!
My family loves both shows. They have humor for both young children and adults, and often throw in subtle references that only adults will get.
Just the other day, I was watching P&F with my kids and Doof said something like “What is that constant tapping? I wonder if it’s that darn Raven again.” My oldest daughter and I both cracked up.
Stephen A. Watkins
September 29, 2011 @ 12:09 pm
I never watched much Kim Possible (although I’ve been an adult-aged fan of many young-audience-skewing animated programs in the past, and still would be if I had both cable and time to watch TV), but I think it’s awesome that they did that. I felt similarly gratified when Jimmy Neutron and Cindy finally get together in one episode of that show – but again the writers didn’t work with the opportunity. So, I think you’re right: these sorts of risks can make or break a show.
Take X-Files for instance – pretty much the textbook example, now, for how not to string audiences along. It was a great show… but both in terms of the relationship between Mulder and Scully and in terms of the larger mythology of the show (vis-a-vis the impending alien invasion and the secret government conspiracies to do something about it, however unethical), the show continually squandered the opportunity to take a bold risk and make the show into something truly great. By the time they tried to get around to it… they’d lost a lot of fans because the show just wasn’t going anywhere.
I feel like I don’t see this quite as much in literature, simply because most stories/series are self-contained. One example I could point to, perhaps, is The Belgariad and The Mallorean. While I really enjoyed these as a kid, as an adult I realize that the latter was practically a play-by-play remake of the former. But by-and-large I think novelists are much more apt to try to explore new ground.
Logically, I think this makes sense: novelists are invested in their own individual image, but they’re largely free to try new things within certain genre limitations without offending their existing audience. But films and television programs are larger, more capital-intensive artistic efforts, and this requires funding from corporations. Corporations have an incentive to be more creatively conservative in order to protect their investments.
Jim C. Hines
September 29, 2011 @ 5:39 pm
I like this theory, and would love to see a crossover episode! They’ve done it before… though generally only with shows that are still being produce.
David Y
September 29, 2011 @ 9:39 pm
Aren’t you a little old to be watching Phineas and Ferb?
Jim C. Hines
September 29, 2011 @ 10:02 pm
No. No I’m not.
D. Moonfire
September 29, 2011 @ 10:11 pm
Never too old. Plus, I strongly think parental units should watch the same thing as their children. Just as they should play the same games (the LEGO series is awesome for that, and my mom was my first DM). 🙂
Jim C. Hines
September 29, 2011 @ 10:13 pm
“Aren’t you a little old to be __________?” is an ongoing joke from the show.
As for watching and playing along with the kids, I agree completely! And I’m looking forward to the day I get to run my first game for mine 🙂
KatG
September 30, 2011 @ 11:21 pm
We have a Kim Possible doll, so there.
But to be fair, kids shows are deliberately repetitive because kids learn from a combo of repeated patterns and novelty. They are not necessarily progressive storylines. The younger the audience, the more repetitive the shows will get; the older the audience, the more they’ll sneak in jokes for adults. (You could argue that Phineas and Ferb — which seems to have a large adult following — was doing a satiric nod to the show Dallas to press the reset button.) And on the romance front, in t.v., show writers often string out romances out of a combination of casting hierarchy pay issues and the idea that committed relationships are repetitive and thus boring.
I think it was cute that the show writers put Kim and Ron together (Holmes kisses Watson,) but others see this as a standard tactic of teen shows: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SheIsNotMyGirlfriend
David Y
October 1, 2011 @ 9:53 pm
I think that the kiss at the dance was supposed to be the series finale, but fan pressure persuaded Disney to continue for another season.
Jeff Dougan
October 1, 2011 @ 10:17 pm
I didn’t have kids at the time KP was on, but the Grasshopper is just old enough to get to watch P&F occasionally. I’m enjoying watching it with him when he gets to see it (we still get bedtime issues w/ new episodes).
The Disney series that I watched, despite being “too old” for it, loved, and wish that they’d bring back, was Dave the Barbarian. Wish it had gotten more than just 1 season.
Jim C. Hines
October 2, 2011 @ 10:18 am
That’s my understanding as well.
Jim C. Hines
October 2, 2011 @ 10:19 am
Dave the Barbarian sounds vaguely familiar, but I don’t think I ever caught that one…
Jeff Dougan
October 2, 2011 @ 11:12 pm
It was a fantastic send-up of many swords & sorcery tropes. The title character was scared of nearly everything, wrote poetry, and would have been a Martha Stewart-type if given the chance. His sister was a send-up of the “valley girl” stereotype. The talking sword had a (Brooklyn?) accent. And, the chief villain was “The Dark Lord Chuckles the Silly Piggy.” Throw in some 4th-wall breaking on occasion, and you had some good laughs.
D. Moonfire
October 3, 2011 @ 9:14 am
I loved Dave the Barbarian. It was silly, over the top, and the characters were amusing with just a hint of depth. I liked the youngest sister (of course, I also like Gaz from Invader Zim for the same reason) in Dave.
Chuk
October 5, 2011 @ 1:06 am
Yeah, I was a little disappointed when they hit the reset button on P&F. Didn’t watch Kim Possible enough to get that far — good show, but I think P&F tops it in general. Maybe it’s the music.